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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-CA link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I would think the major design goal for a sugar shack would be ventilation – and aren’t the evaporators hooded these days – stainless steel vent hood kind of thing either mechanical or with a large chimney – old ones I was in as a child had big open cupolas <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>jfstraube@gmail.com<br><b>Sent:</b> August-31-15 9:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> Matt Dirksen; Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Most permeable air barrier<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Now you are second guessing design goals. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%;background:white;border-spacing:0px'><tr><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;font-size:initial;text-align:initial'><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Matt Dirksen<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Sent: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Monday, August 31, 2015 10:19<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>To: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Green Building<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Reply To: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Green Building<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Subject: </span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Re: [Greenbuilding] Most permeable air barrier<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id="_originalContent"><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>" I doubt that any building sheet membrane air barrier product is more vapour-permeable than the "breathable" Gore-tex liner that is inside some of the jackets that I wear in winter."<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>EVent is considerably more vapor permeable than any of the Gore products.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Regardless, opening up some pit zips will beat the hell out of any vapor permeable material, when it comes to attempting to reduce moisture build up.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>On that note, I'd assume a good, properly sized, ventilation system would be far more effective (and cost effective) toward removing moisture, then speccing some $$ permeable membrane.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Especially in a specialized application like a maple sugar shack.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><br>Matt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US><br>On Aug 31, 2015, at 9:52 AM, RT <<a href="mailto:ArchiLogic@yahoo.ca">ArchiLogic@yahoo.ca</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 14:10:44 -0400, Ross Elliott <<a href="mailto:relliott@homesol.ca">relliott@homesol.ca</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US>I know Tyvek is way more permeable to water vapour than Typar, which are the only two choices available locally, but I'm building a sugar shack, which as its primary function is to dissipate a tremendous amount of water vapour. I don't want the water to condense on the ceiling air barrier, otherwise it may drip back into the syrup. What's the absolute most vapour-permeable air barrier on the market, including those esoteric European membranes?</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>I have no idea nor have I looked at any product tech data numbers but I doubt that any building sheet membrane air barrier product is more vapour-permeable than the "breathable" Gore-tex liner that is inside some of the jackets that I wear in winter.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>On those garments I find that after strenuous activity (when it's really cold out) the inside of the jacket will often be dripping wet with condensed perspiration.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>I suspect that what's happening is that the heat loss from my body is not enough to keep the transpired perspiration in vapour phase so that it can be moved through the vapour-permeable Gore-tex membrane which of course does not permit liquid-phase moisture to pass through. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>I don't know how voluminous your sugar shack will be so I have no idea what the interior temps will be at the building envelope and whether the temps at the interior surfaces will be sufficient to drive the moisture past the air barrier but I suspect that a more prudent strategy would be to assume that there will be condensation and <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> (a) provide details to collect and route that condensation to where it can't cause trouble <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> and/or<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> (b) use hydrophilic materials inside of the air barrier that will be able to suck up the moisture (ie like a sauna) <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> or<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> (c) design the sap boiling apparatus as a closed system ( you know, like your mescal juice still) so that the evaporate can be collected and directed to where it can't cause trouble.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=M2Signature><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>=== * ===<br>Rob Tom DT7-64 <br>Kanata, Ontario, Canada<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>