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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>With vertical insulation encasing the rock you would benefit from the deeper soil temperatures as well as the rock mass would take on the temperature of the deeper soil and you could model that - but one concern that I would want to consider is groundwater pressure (finding a nice big pool to fill) though that shouldn’t really affect temperature unless the seepage is closer to surface soil temperatures.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan Abrams<br><b>Sent:</b> December-07-15 4:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] R-value of crushed stone under slab<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Frank, the stone was under 9" of geo foam @ R-4.2, supporting a 4" slab.. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>still, according to PHPP, there is a lot of impact to the gross modeled result from decoupling the assembly from the subsoil. FWIW, the gravel fill was also encased in vertical <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>insulation. So the R-value of the stone may not be trivial...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-aa<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#660000'>Alan Abrams<b><br></b></span><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#666666'>certified professional building designer, AIBD<br>certified passive house consultant, PHIUS</span></i><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='color:#666666'>certified passive house builder, PHIUS</span></i><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#666666'><br></span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#666666'>cell 202-437-8583<br><a href="mailto:alan@abramsdesignbuild.com" target="_blank"><span style='color:#666666'>alan@abramsdesignbuild.com</span></a><br></span><a href="http://www.heliconworks.com/index2.html" target="_blank">HELICON WORKS <i>Achitecture and Education</i></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Frank Tettemer <<a href="mailto:frank@livingsol.com" target="_blank">frank@livingsol.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I would consider the 24" of gravel as a steady, 24/7 heat loss. In fact, in a colder climate, (like Eastern Ontario, Canada), there would be little consideration of trying to heat that gravel. Any heat going into it from the house would continue traveling down and out, and the heat added to the stone would never return to the house. Unless you opened all the windowsand doors to quickly chill the place. Then for a short while, the cool stones would give offtheir relative heat to the room.<br><br>In other words, dee-coupling from the stones, with at least R-25 insulation, would be a Good Idea. If you were a Passiv Haus enthusiast, you would insulate with R-45 or more, to prevent heat loss to those stones.<br><br>Frank Tettemer<br>Living Sol ~ Building and Design<br><a href="http://www.livingsol.com" target="_blank">www.livingsol.com</a><br>613 756 3884<br><br><br><br><br>On 07/12/2015 5:26 PM, Norbert Senf wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Right, I was only addressing the "heat capacity expressed as MJ(m^3K)" part of the question. R value of gravel is a look-up value............N<br><br><br>On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Nick Pine <<a href="mailto:nick_pine@verizon.net" target="_blank">nick_pine@verizon.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:nick_pine@verizon.net" target="_blank">nick_pine@verizon.net</a>>> wrote:<br><br><br> Norbert Senf <<a href="mailto:norbert.senf@gmail.com" target="_blank">norbert.senf@gmail.com</a><br> <mailto:<a href="mailto:norbert.senf@gmail.com" target="_blank">norbert.senf@gmail.com</a>>> writes:<br><br> ... the specific heat would be .14 MJ/m3-K<br><br><br> I'm afraid that has nothing to do with R-value.<br><br> Nick<br><br><br><br> _______________________________________________<br> Greenbuilding mailing list<br> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br> <a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a>><br><br> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br><br><br><br>-- <br>Norbert Senf<br>Masonry Stove Builders<br>25 Brouse Road, RR 5<br>Shawville Québec J0X 2Y0<br>819.647.5092<br><a href="http://www.heatkit.com" target="_blank">www.heatkit.com</a> <<a href="http://www.heatkit.com" target="_blank">http://www.heatkit.com</a>><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>-- <br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>