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<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV><FONT size=4
face="Times New Roman">Norbert Senf wrote:<BR></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman">According to the IPCC, there is a 2.3
multiplier on the greenhouse effect of airplance CO2, from the water vapour
emissions into the stratosphere. I have yet to see a calculator that accounts
for this, perhaps because it steps on everyone's toes. It easily makes air
travel the largest contributor, for many of us rich
folks.................N</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman"><BR> </DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman"><EM>My comment:</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman"><EM>This is good to know. Do you
have a source for that IPCC discernment? Since we are measuring co2 or
it’s heat trapping equivalent co2 for methane, I would want to use the 2.3
factor if I can find convincing documentation. Among sicientist, the IPCC
has a reputation of being conservative in their projections in order to reach
consensus. Our main purpose in promoting this exercise is to get us to
gain awareness of our impact to motivate improvements. Getting people to
look at the impact of very popular air travel is important.</EM>
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<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman"><EM>I want to include food, because
that is another important measurable co2 emissions. I particularly want to
see the impact of packaging, distance, and different food types. Entering
in item by item with online food calculator would give the best result.
However, the tedium of doing this may prevent many from participating.
Therefore, an easier metric would increase participation with a loss of
accuracy. I am going to try tracking our grocery purchases to see if I can
learn my food carbon footprint. My vegan daughter as well as some on this
list have claimed that a meet diet has as much or more impact than airline
travel. I am doubtful about that discernment. However, it would be
interesting to see if this is true by the numbers. I do agree that meat
from feedlot, particularly beef does have a high carbon footprint. Some of
this is the fossil fuels used. In the case of beef it also includes the
methane they burp as part of their normal digestion. </EM></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman">Mike O'Brien wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman">I don't try to include food and
consumables, too vague at this point. Above is a good start.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman"><EM>My comment:</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman"><EM>I think that tracking the
information that is accurate such as quantity of gasoline or electricity should
be separate from embodied energy in consumables where the metric by the
calculators is less apparent.</EM> </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="TEXT-DECORATION: ; FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: ; DISPLAY: inline"><FONT
size=4 face="Times New Roman">Bob Waldrop wrote:</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="TEXT-DECORATION: ; FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: ; DISPLAY: inline"><FONT
size=4 face="Times New Roman">One issue I run in to when calculating carbon
emissions is that we heat with passive solar and wood. Our household of 4
buys electricity generated by wind (about 11,000 kwh/yr for everything -- hot
water, summer AC, entertainment, lights, computers, etc). We use a small
amount (5 gallons) of propane each month as cooking fuel. <BR><BR>What's
the goal we should be shooting for? i.e. is there a "Kyoto Protocol
allowance" per household or per capita?<BR><BR>One thing we don't do is
fly. Nobody in our household has flown anywhere for years and we've pretty
much stopped long distance road trips too. I sometimes go to Tulsa or to
my hometown in southwest Oklahoma, so we are operating in about a 130 mile
radius of our home. One car for 3 adults, 1 kid. Kid gets to walk to
school every day. We seem to be losing the desire to travel, lol. I
wrote a friend of mine who is a cloistered Benedictine monk about that and he
replied, "This increased stability in your life is a sign of increased
sanity."</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="TEXT-DECORATION: ; FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: ; DISPLAY: inline"><FONT
style="size: 2" size=4 face="Times New Roman"><EM>My
comment:</EM></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: "><FONT style="face: arial"><FONT size=4
face="Times New Roman"><EM>Your practice appear very mindful of an aspiration to
live sustainably. Getting your choices to become a trend is key for
addressing climate change. </EM></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: "><FONT style="face: arial"><FONT size=4
face="Times New Roman"><EM></EM></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: "><FONT style="face: arial"><FONT size=4
face="Times New Roman"><EM>I think travel is a big component of the American
lifestyle. I am often surprised when individuals claiming passionate
concern about climate change commonly telling of the trip to China, Africa,
Europe, sometimes multiple times or annually. That is why asking
them to tract the impact will give them more information that we hope would
inform them of their impact and motivate ethics driven modifications. The
key if for them to identify their own impact.</EM></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: "><EM><FONT size=4
face="Times New Roman"></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: "><EM><FONT size=4
face="Times New Roman">Thanks for the imput. I am glad to know the list
still gains some attention. </FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: "><EM><FONT size=4 face="Times New Roman">Eli
</FONT></EM></DIV></DIV>
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