<div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Bill Allen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bill.allen@verizon.net" target="_blank">bill.allen@verizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>I have been brainstorming the same concept except I have additional requirements for the heater:</div><div>1) needs to provide the living room ambiance of a traditional firplace when desired.</div></div></blockquote><div><br><div>Hi Bill:<br>Fireplace ambience:<br><a href="http://heatkit.com/graphics/clients2/c-davison11b.JPG">http://heatkit.com/graphics/clients2/c-davison11b.JPG</a><br><br></div>that one has a heated bench and bakeoven on the kitchen side <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>2) power a radient floor system if neccessary.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>A waste of time and money, in my opinion. The masonry heater has 100 sq. ft of vertical radiant panel that runs at 160F surface temperature. Ie., in a well designed house, it is the radiant heating system, why move that heat around via water and pumps into a floor?<br><br></div><div>As a house becomes more efficient, heat distribution issues and temperature stratification tend to disappear.<br></div><div>Here is some feedback I got last week from the client in New Brunswick who built the heater in the photo, and the house that was designed around it:<br><a href="http://heatkit.com/docs/feedback/c-davison.htm">http://heatkit.com/docs/feedback/c-davison.htm</a><br><br></div><div>A lot of people put the radiant tubing into the slab anyway, because that part is cheap. You can add the expensive headers, controllers and boiler later. Better to have that as a backup system running on a separately fueled boiler. <br>Otherwise the masonry heater has to get built as a boiler, and will not be a fireplace. Here is what a masonry boiler looks like:<br><a href="http://heatkit.com/html/lopezs.htm">http://heatkit.com/html/lopezs.htm</a><br>However, if your heat load is low, your backup can be a couple of electric baseboards, much cheaper. Usually you want a non-wood backup so that the house can be heated unattended if necessary..............................N<br></div>(snip)<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:9px;color:rgb(87,87,87)">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 5 ACTIVE™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone</div></div><div><div class="h5"><div></div><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Norbert Senf <<a href="mailto:norbert.senf@gmail.com" target="_blank">norbert.senf@gmail.com</a>> <br>Date:01/29/2016 8:43 AM (GMT-05:00) <br>To: Green Building <<a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>> <br>Cc: <br>Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] over-insulating <br><br><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>This reminds me of an interesting concept from Fairbanks, Alaska:<br>Alaska building researchers have developed a popular super envelope system that reduces your heat load practically to zero. It adds about $100,000 to the cost of conventional 2x4 framing construction up there. A heater mason friend and a plumber colleague developed the following idea, that has been very successful in practice:<br><br></div>- skip the $100,000 envelope add-on<br></div>- use 2x6 framing w, 2" foam on the outside, tight construction, good attic insulation, etc.<br></div>- design in a wood fired masonry heater with a hot water system.<br><br></div>- you now have an extremely clean and efficient fireplace, plus just enough heat load and heat storage that you can fire the masonry heater once a day and have it make all your domestic hot water.<br></div>- domestic hot water is very expensive in Alaska, so you get a great payback.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Reuben Deumling <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:9watts@gmail.com" target="_blank">9watts@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>I agree, Bob. <br><br></div>I was using Frank's term, and compared to what is generally recommended (for our climate zone) eleven inches would probably be considered excessive. <br></div>Mostly I posted this little summary because it seems like it confirms my long-standing hunch that you can achieve something along the lines of what is promised in the Passivhaus fine print without spending a mint or using crazy gizmos or materials. <br><br></div>I like heating with wood, and think I'll miss it when it becomes merely an occasional thing, but then there is the weeks and months I don't need to look for, cut and split and stack and haul and restack and move and move again, and make fires every day for 5-6 months of every year....<br></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Bob Waldrop <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bwaldrop1952@att.net" target="_blank">bwaldrop1952@att.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
It seems to me that you didn't "over-insulate," instead, you
insulated the "right amount". Ever since we defied all the local
conventional wisdom and put nine inches of insulation into our walls
by insulating the existing walls and then building new walls five
inches inside of the exterior walls and insulating those, we've been
enjoying lower heating and air conditioning bills. Personally, I
think that generally most builders underinsulate businesses and
condemn their occupants to perpetual indenture to utility
companies. <br>
<br>
Bob Waldrop, Okie City<span><br>
<br>
<div>On 1/28/2016 10:17 PM, Gennaro
Brooks-Church - Eco Brooklyn wrote:<br>
</div>
</span><blockquote type="cite"><span>Congrats Ruben on your remodel. Sounds great. <span></span><br>
</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span>On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 7:04 PM,
Reuben Deumling <span dir="ltr"><<a></a><a href="mailto:9watts@gmail.com" target="_blank">9watts@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</span><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
However...the heating demand for this space is very
nearly zero. The whole house (before this remodel)
burned through about 5 cords/winter and it was never
really cozy. So far this winter my mom's burned a
little over one-tenth of a cord. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Reuben<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* I know I asked a bunch of questions about this
project of you folks along the way. A belated thank
you to all. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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-- <br>
Sent from Mobile, excuse the brevity.<br>
Gennaro Brooks-Church, Director<br>
Eco Brooklyn<br>
<a href="tel:347-244-3016" value="+13472443016" target="_blank">347-244-3016</a><br>
22 2nd St, BK NY 11231 <br>
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