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<font size="-1"><font face="Verdana">I would "third" Rob's</font></font><font
size="-1"><font face="Verdana"><font size="-1"><font
face="Verdana">, and Reuben's,</font></font> idea of add<font
face="Verdana">ing</font> storms. <br>
Single wood frame glazing, using strips of foam sill gasket to
seal against the outside of the windows, has changed life
remarkably for a neighbour. <br>
<br>
<font face="Verdana">Most <font face="Verdana">importantly</font>,
his double glaze woode<font face="Verdana">n Pella windows
were beginning to show signs of mildew at the bottom in only
a few years from <font face="Verdana">installation</font>.
<br>
Condensation would form along the bottom of the glazing,
wood was beginning to turn black, and ice would form in the
same place, during <font face="Verdana">mi<font
face="Verdana">nus twenty five Celsius nights. <br>
<font face="Verdana">The addition of a third layer
outside kept the inner glaze <font face="Verdana">warm
enough that condensation would not form. <br>
<br>
<font face="Verdana">Here in Ontario, when I draw
floor plans for folks, I always specify triple
glazing for all wooden windows. <font
face="Verdana">T</font>he added 10% in costs of
the triple glaze is way less expensive than the
added maint<font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana">e</font>n<font face="Verdana">a</font>nce
costs, and condensation issues, especially with
wood frames.</font></font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Frank Tettemer
Living Sol ~ Building and Design
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.livingsol.com">www.livingsol.com</a>
613 756 3884</pre>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 17/03/2016 12:26 PM, Reuben Deumling
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAE5fceA9=AMgr8HJkW-7_gABbucPMjPRLFegQaUZZXsf9gj=cg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I second Rob's motion for storm windows. I've had
excellent thermal experience adding single-glazed wood-framed
storm windows to both double and single pane windows. <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:22 AM,
Vadurro, Rob, EMNRD <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rob.vadurro@state.nm.us" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rob.vadurro@state.nm.us">rob.vadurro@state.nm.us</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">You
mentioned the windows. I think you’ll find that
after taking care of the wall insulation to R-10 to
R-20 or so, you’ll be left with a bunch of R-1 or
R-2 “holes” in the walls via the windows, not to
mention the extra air infiltration. I suggest
investing in insulated storm sashes and air sealing
would be your best investment at that point.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Rob
Vadurro, AIA</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Park
Architect</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">New
Mexico State Parks</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">1220
South Saint Francis Drive</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Santa
Fe, NM 87505</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:505-476-3383"
value="+15054763383" target="_blank">505-476-3383</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:505-476-3361"
value="+15054763361" target="_blank">505-476-3361</a>
fax</span><span style="font-family:"Baskerville
Old Face",serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Greenbuilding [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sacie Lambertson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 17, 2016 9:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Green Building <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] best practice</span></p>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">THANK
YOU all for the many responses. And I'm
sorry I didn't fully explain the house
redo. We are entirely gutting the 2000 sq
ft house. We will be fully/properly
insulating the crawl space and the attic.
It is only the method of insulating the
walls that is up the air.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> I
think the architect/builder/fabricator who
did
<u>not</u> do the plans for the house is
knowledgeable. I am certain he will make
sure in the redo, the walls will be
tight. Moreover, seems to me a single
sheath of <span style="color:#545454">polyiso
taped on the inside would be added
insurance would it not? And strapped
horizontally for drywall. I could
sacrifice interior space for the better
certainty of a job well done. </span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#545454">The
big downside to not pulling off that old
siding is the possibility of having to
repaint it more often than I might like
because there is no rainscreen.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#545454">We
are btw, going to reuse the old 2 over 2
windows as well; like the rest of the
house these are in good shape. I would be
interested if anyone on this list knows
about a good mid-west based restoration
service. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#545454">Further
comments on both these subjects are
welcome. I am paying good attention to
those already received.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#545454">Sacie</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at
6:39 AM, John Straube <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jfstraube@uwaterloo.ca"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jfstraube@uwaterloo.ca">jfstraube@uwaterloo.ca</a></a>>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida
Sans",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA">Very difficult to take
such claims seriously: “not worth it”
depends entirely on the cost of the
doing “it” and what “it” gets you. Too
many practical and economic variables
to be able to make such a statement.</span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida
Sans",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA">Adding insulation between
the framing will be massively impacted
by thermal bridging. You will have a
hard time getting airtightness to the
same level as from the exterior.
</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida
Sans",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA">But, if you are willing
to live with an equivalent R10 wall
(after all the thermal bridging at
studs partions and floors) and an
airtightness probably in the 2-5
ACG@50 range, then ripping apart the
entire interior is the cost.</span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida
Sans",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA">Removing the exterior
siding is also a lot of disruption but
the disruption is outdoors. Good
design will allow you to get
exceptional airtightness, adding just
2” of insulation will get you the same
R-10, and you will be able to improve
water control so that the house
framing lasts a very long time. Add
4” of, say, rockwool/EPS and you get
R20, real R-value (nothing in the
studspace) or drill holes in exterior
sheathing, blow in cellulose, add 4”
of rockwool/ EPS and you are now close
to real R-30.</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida
Sans",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA">With the reliable and
high airtightness, and the uniform
high R-value you can now heat or cool
this place with small and simple HVAC,
and not have to think about upgrading
again for another long time…</span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida
Sans",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA">In my experience, the
performance of the between studs
retrofits is always significant less
than an exterior wrap, and the
difference matters to occupant comfort
and energy use in a very noticeable
way.</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida
Sans",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA">I guess, though, I am
just another design professional in my
young 40’s
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA">J</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida
Sans",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA">
</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida
Sans",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA"> </span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida
Sans",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA">John</span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="7632597541859605085_878787685277177951__MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida
Sans",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"
lang="EN-CA"> </span></a><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Greenbuilding [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sacie Lambertson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> March 16, 2016 21:43<br>
<b>To:</b> Greenbuilding <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Greenbuilding] best
practice</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"
lang="EN-CA">A good guy and
relatively young architect (in
his 40s, 'young' by my
standards), tells me it is not
worth taking off the siding of
an old 1883 house to add
insulation and an air space to
the outside. He says the
added expense is not worth the
additional insulation. That
the extra R-value above R 23
in walls is thermodynamically
not money well spent as long
as the house is very tightly
constructed in the retro-fit.</span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"
lang="EN-CA"> </span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"
lang="EN-CA">The siding is
original and in very good
shape. The interior has full
dimensioned 2x4 walls. The
rooms are too small for me to
want to build a double wall on
the interior.</span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"
lang="EN-CA"> </span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"
lang="EN-CA">What he suggests
I do is simply used closed
cell foam between the wall
framing.</span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"
lang="EN-CA"> </span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"
lang="EN-CA">I would
appreciate your comments
please.</span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"
lang="EN-CA"> </span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"
lang="EN-CA">Sacie</span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"
lang="EN-CA"> </span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"
lang="EN-CA"> </span><span
lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Greenbuilding mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></pre>
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<p class="" avgcert""="" color="#000000" align="left">No virus
found in this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2016.0.7497 / Virus Database: 4545/11830 - Release
Date: 03/17/16</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
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