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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I would echo that. Old growth pine, cedar, fir are the materials of choice for endurance and performance in wood but I don’t think it is an appropriate material to use anymore given its scarcity - when a hollow insulated fiberglass frame will suffice as an equivalent or better. Odd thing for me to say as my shop still reluctantly builds custom wood windows - but it is true. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Fiberglass or even better grades of PVC which is the plastic from hell actually conform to stresses better and maintain seals better than wood will depending on the detailing and it is hard to get a wood window to seal properly to meet current requirements . So it may be an appropriate use for inappropriate materials. Remember that the big wood window manufacturers use fungicide to cover a maximum 20 year timeframe for the products they produce and surprisingly that is allowed in an interior environment?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>It depends on the project, leakage (ventilation) requirements, code requirements, aesthetics. Code requirements are the main issue at this point as a lot of manufacturers are actually having trouble meeting current energy requirements - so most windows that are certified now actually do perform quite well (compared to the past) and custom manufacture (small shops) are becoming extinct as an option except for extreme high end projects where on-site testing is often required.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>For an operable window to perform well it has to be reasonably sized, have two seals (points of contact with a some type of compressible weatherseal) and has to have good closure hardware that pulls the window shut at minimally two points. Sounds simple but is actually a complex product to make in wood as wood relies on air to survive. A leaky wood window will last a long time. Moisture trapped between seals in a wood window will rot a wood window pretty quickly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>john<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Straube<br><b>Sent:</b> May-09-16 4:08 PM<br><b>To:</b> Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Windows<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>While some wood and some wood windows last, many do not. This is the reason people switched. They wanted painted wood, and that required maintainence. For every 100 yr wood window there is one that rotted at 50. With new wood, they can fail in 20. </span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The key is to protect the wood window through smart detailing (building overhangs, recessed windows, drip caps, steep sloped sill with drip kerf etc etc). Then hope you can find some slow growth cedar or maybe heat treated wood to get the better material.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It is not just “spec wood and it will last 100 years”. It is more like “study wood, understand windows and buldings, choose the best materials and the best designs and you should get 50 yrs, maybe more”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John Straube | Ph.D, P.Eng.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Associate Professor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Civil and Environmental Engineering / School of Architecture<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>University of Waterloo<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>CPH-2373H<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> Greenbuilding [<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael O'Brien<br><b>Sent:</b> May 9, 2016 15:50<br><b>To:</b> Green Building <<a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Windows<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi, Reuben--<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>Many things to like about wood windows, but what about weather exposure? Don't they need some cladding or coating to withstand UV and water?<br><br>Best, Mike<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On May 9, 2016, at 12:16 PM, Reuben Deumling <<a href="mailto:9watts@gmail.com">9watts@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Windows have become for me a central, fraught issue when it comes to buildings. I've met several wood window makers who have a local (and by default historical/restoration) focus and who prefer single pane. It took me a number of years and lots of experimenting to come around to their preference for single pane/antipathy to double pane. To date I have sourced my storm windows from the same window makers. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>We are engulfed by a tidal wave of window <i>upgrades </i>where (typically) original double hung single pane wood windows are yanked out and tossed into the dumpster, replaced by vinyl crap. Energy authorities love this, and most people who do this assume they are doing the right thing, in large part because almost no one objects, disagrees, or points to viable alternatives. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Aesthetically, philosophically, environmentally, even economically, a set of handmade wood windows are hard to beat. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Sacie Lambertson <<a href="mailto:sacie.lambertson@gmail.com" target="_blank">sacie.lambertson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Me too. I'm interested in finding some very good triple glazed windows. Would appreciate Reuben's info as well. Where do your storms come from Reuben? Interesting what you suggest about thermopanes. Wonder if there is some consensus on this?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Stephen T. from Thermotech used to post regularly on this forum.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>I checked out 'best' windows and found, while T. are considered very good windows, their service is not good, or wasn't for the number of people who posted such. They are definitely still around.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>John Straube mentioned a C. manufacturer out of his West but in contacting them they didn't look like a good fit for our Mid West (Kansas). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>I'm also looking for someone who can rebuild good old old windows. Close to Kansas City.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#888888'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#888888'>Sacie<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Lynelle Hamilton <<a href="mailto:lynelle@lahamilton.com" target="_blank">lynelle@lahamilton.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi Folks,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Am looking for windows for the new part of the house. I'd used Thermotech (Ottawa) last time, but don't know if they are still around. The house faces NW, onto a lake, so efficiency is important. As always, I want the best for the best price. What have folks used and like?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks in advance!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Lynelle Hamilton</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=5 cellpadding=0 style='border:none;border-top:solid #AAABB6 1.0pt'><tr><td width=55 style='width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-v1.png"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=470 style='width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:11.25pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#41424E'>Virus-free. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style='color:#4453EA'>www.avast.com</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></body></html>