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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>If you increased the size of the exhaust pipe coming out of the back of the biolet (from 2” to 4” or more) and insulated it there should be improved natural venting – which would also improve the drying (less heater use). Alternatively the fan in those is 25watt so you could get a cheap solar panel. Or just vent the room – air inlet at floor – roof exhaust<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bill Allen<br><b>Sent:</b> July-21-16 9:24 AM<br><b>To:</b> Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Septic for high water table area<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Norbert and all,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I have a composting toilet (bought used) to use at a weekend spot. I am still finishing the structure (will look like a traditional outhouse). I dont want the power (fan, heater) to run 24/7 when I am not there. Any tricks for part-time use of one of these? Will it make the out-house smell over the 5 days I am not there between visits?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It happens to be a Biolette.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Bill<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#575757'>Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 5 ACTIVE™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Norbert Senf <<a href="mailto:norbert.senf@gmail.com">norbert.senf@gmail.com</a>> <br>Date:07/21/2016 10:47 AM (GMT-05:00) <br>To: Green Building <<a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>> <br>Cc: <br>Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Septic for high water table area <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Actually, it is a "moldering" system (Clivus type)............N<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Norbert Senf <<a href="mailto:norbert.senf@gmail.com" target="_blank">norbert.senf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Whether composting systems are ready for prime time is certainly debatable.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Our own personal experience with a system that is now 35 years old has been good. Yes, it needs power for ventilation<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>and needs minor active management. We have lots of land and perennials, so using the compost is no problem.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>For a two person household, it produces about 2 wheelbarrows of compost a year. We have a separate system for kitchen compost.<br>For our particular household and location, it was a great alternative to having to do a megaproject, and local permissions were not an issue at the time................Norbert<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 1:10 AM, John Salmen <<a href="mailto:terrain@shaw.ca" target="_blank">terrain@shaw.ca</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Being in Ontario I would recommend a waterloo biofilter especially for what sounds more like a house than a cabin - but there would be some minimal energy involved. Probably a holding tank and solar pump would work in terms of engineering if energy is a concern. I trust that product as I have worked with it.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I’ve designed a few composting systems when forced to - and they are essentially polluting unless its a closed system that can denitrify urine and that gets complex. For a house system they literally stink unless venting is really well developed and paid for and then even then...essentially I don’t like them as I don’t trust homeowners to make them work over time which is not a criticism – no one wants to deal with shit which is why we have municipal authorities and pay them well.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Composting systems still have a somewhat reduced end product that still has to find a resting place. If you had a farm that you intended to farm for a 1000 years or so yes I could see wanting to maintain the nutrients in some well considered system though you would need to indenture your progeny for 900 and something plus years. Other than that you need a simple plan that can deal with the waste of 3 bedroom home for a generation or so.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Perhaps there is a local composting system you could tie into for a pump and dump. 50’s technology but ironically it puts the ‘load’ on municipal gov’t to protect environment and make the best use of the nutrients. Watersheds are critical protection areas and a lot of thought has gone into that in local gov’t these days. Perhaps you could ask them as to what the best plan might be for your area.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Greenbuilding [mailto:<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lynelle Hamilton<br><b>Sent:</b> July-20-16 8:43 PM<br><b>To:</b> Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Septic for high water table area</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi Sharon,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Hydro went out and ditched the internet when I was sending a reply. I apologise if this is a duplicate post.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks for the post and link.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I had a peat pot system (an EcoFlo) some years ago, but the appear to have disappeared from the scene here in central Ontario. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I'm considering a composting system, but if I use one, want a whole house system. This is a bit of a challenge in a home with insulated slab on grade construction. I'm toying with the idea of a small crawl space area to hold the composter unit, as well as some other utilities, though.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Lynelle</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 2016-07-20 11:13 PM, Sharon D. Moran wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Hello Lynelle, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I have heard about alternative onsite septic systems that use peat moss, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>and that approach may not always require a raised bed. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Here in upstate NY, the company Bord Na Mona (see link below) has made some installations on small-lot, lakeside cottages.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Since you mentioned wanting to be as low tech as possible, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>you might consider whether you would be comfortable with a dry toilet approach in the cottage, and if so, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>then your wastewater focus would only need to be greywater, rather than blackwater (thereby simplifying matters a bit).<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>While many local governments can be skeptical about alternative approaches, making it harder for innovators, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>other local governments do tons of research and provide lots of information, and this has to be one of the best out there - Massachusetts' Barnstable County: <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.barnstablecountyhealth.org/resources/publications/compendium-of-information-on-alternative-onsite-septic-system-technology/peat-filter-septic-systems" target="_blank">http://www.barnstablecountyhealth.org/resources/publications/compendium-of-information-on-alternative-onsite-septic-system-technology/peat-filter-septic-systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>-Sharon<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>From: Greenbuilding [<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] on behalf of Lynelle Hamilton [<a href="mailto:lynelle@lahamilton.com" target="_blank">lynelle@lahamilton.com</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 10:37 PM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: <a href="mailto:greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Subject: [Greenbuilding] Septic for high water table area<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Hello all,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I'm extensively renovating a 700 sq ft cottage and will add square footage in the process. This will require replacing the septic bed as it: a) was constructed during the Defenbaker years; b) is insufficient for what will be a 3 bedroom 2.5 bath home; and c)is downright ugly and will render unusable a large chunk of a small lot.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I'm on Lake Simcoe and the the water table is high. I've been told that "everyone" has to install a raised bed, but a number of the updated homes (including those that have added square footage) don't have one. Are there alternatives to raised bed systems that will be as low tech as possible (e.g. eliminating the need for a pump/processing system that requires electricity and/or constatn monitoring.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I'd appreciate any thoughts folks have to offer!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Lynelle<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>[<a href="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange_184x116-v1.png" target="_blank">https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/2016/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange_184x116-v1.png</a>]<a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon" target="_blank"><https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon></a> Virus-free. <a href="http://www.avast.com" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link" target="_blank"><https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Greenbuilding mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellpadding=0 style='border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt'><tr><td width=55 style='width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon" target="_blank"><span style='border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=46 height=29 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D1E336.01290660" alt="Image removed by sender."></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=470 style='width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#41424E'>Virus-free. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link" target="_blank"><span style='color:#4453EA'>www.avast.com</span></a> </span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=hoenzb><span style='color:#888888'>-- </span><span style='color:#888888'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#888888'>Norbert Senf<br>Masonry Stove Builders<br>25 Brouse Road, RR 5<br>Shawville Québec J0X 2Y0<br><a href="tel:819.647.5092" target="_blank">819.647.5092</a><br><a href="http://www.heatkit.com" target="_blank">www.heatkit.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><br>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Norbert Senf<br>Masonry Stove Builders<br>25 Brouse Road, RR 5<br>Shawville Québec J0X 2Y0<br>819.647.5092<br><a href="http://www.heatkit.com" target="_blank">www.heatkit.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>