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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>What is the question or more specifically what is the problem or what do you want. Decks can be made out of whatever you want – steel/aluminum/plastic/concrete/wood/PT wood. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>How long do you want it to last?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>What do you want it to cost?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>What do you want it to look like?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Do you want it friendly for kids/pets/soil/yourself?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>And then a reality check. Do PT woods last? How much longer? And where does all that preservative go? Do the homework.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Concrete works – I have a 25 year old project concrete deck elevated 4’ off the ground that is 1.5” of concrete exposed aggregate deck with 4x6 integrated concrete beams at 6’ span with 6x6 concrete posts extending 3’6 above the deck with cedar railings extending between. The cedar railings are starting to show their age – but the deck is fine. The concrete work at that point was equivalent in cost to a solid wood deck – but has required no refinishing and has aged nicely.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Sure it took some effort to design and engineer – but isn’t that what alternatives are about?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I have a project 3 level 1.5” </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>coloured</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> concrete deck poured on existing wood 2x framing with concrete stair treads that is now 15 years old at a commercial facility. That was a replacement for decking that lasted less than 10 years. Colouring has faded a little but has heavy use and still looks good as this kind of thing ages well. A patina.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Plastic decks I am not as personally fond of as they go on looking like plastic and just don’t age in the same way as an aesthetic – but work and are durable. They can be painted but then you are locked into the refinishing/maintenance material waste every 5 years or so.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>There are a large variety of new composite materials that decks can be made of that have good longevity before needing refinishing or renewal (steel/aluminum type panels). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I tend to avoid decking in designs – figuring that if people want to be outside they should be on the ground. If I have to do exterior stairs I will look at any alternatives to wood that have some kind of integrity and recyclability - leave the wood in the woods (steel, glass, precast). In multilevel designs I will look at some kind of pre-manufactured component that is not a tree fibre.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Wood decks can last if designed well – even with crappy plantation wood but the culprit is the refinishing as it is gallons of material that just erodes into the environment on a 5 year renewal. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>So yes – for real – design is about what you want to live with/afford. Green design is about what you want to live with/afford and what we try and figure out as a better criteria.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Greenbuilding [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Antonioli Dan<br><b>Sent:</b> August-01-16 8:07 PM<br><b>To:</b> Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Greenbuilding] Alternatives to Copper Green<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Plastic and concrete as alternatives to PT wood?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>For real?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Aug 1, 2016, at 7:53 PM, John Salmen <<a href="mailto:terrain@shaw.ca">terrain@shaw.ca</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I’ve done decks with plastic lumber and detailed plastic lumber for sills, shower framing and other potentially non-wood friendly locations. Bit disgusting as a deck as it tends to both ‘wilt’ under sunlight and have a that garbage bag odour. Its not copper arsenic which is just kind of primitive at this point.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Sodium silicate lumber works – but disappeared off the market. Elevated concrete decks have worked really well for me as well. I have 3 concrete deck projects that have hit the 20 yr mark (typically 2-3 wood deck replacements).</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Greenbuilding [<a href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:purple'>mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Antonioli Dan<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>August-01-16 6:36 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Green Building<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [Greenbuilding] Alternatives to Copper Green</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Tim, <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I remember this kind of conversation with you a few years back. Once again I suggest you get some field experience to back-up your claims/suggestions/advice because you’ll be super effective as an activist once you know how the rubber…or plastic…hits the road. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I know of no plastic products you suggest that will take the place of PT in the deck application I’m bringing up. Yes there are alternatives…..scuba diving into our rivers looking for old-growth redwood, hauling it to your land, milling it, building with it…..<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>….buying full dimensional and VERY expensive salvage logged fir and pine from a third-generation family run mill two hours North of here. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Or buying “FSC certified” wood from Home Depot to support MRC and “the family” and build with that. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Come out here and build us a deck just the way you like it. I might even pay for your airfare. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dan<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Aug 1, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Tim Keating <<a href="mailto:t.keating@rainforestrelief.org"><span style='color:purple'>t.keating@rainforestrelief.org</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p>Ah. In which case, there are only one or two alternatives that most folks would consider economical enough. But I always at least mention recycled plastic lumber as the most ecological, if someone was interested in durability and sustainability over cost. Most homeowners are interested in materials that will last 200 years, when 25 years will suffice (in their minds).<o:p></o:p></p><p>Tim<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 7/29/16 12:36 PM, Antonioli Dan wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Tim, the PT isn’t the “decking” it’s the frame that supports it. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Jul 29, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Tim Keating <<a href="mailto:t.keating@rainforestrelief.org"><span style='color:purple'>t.keating@rainforestrelief.org</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p>I think the answer would be (have been?) to not use pressure-treated wood for the deck. There are a lot of greener options for decking that don’t involve any chemical preservatives.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Tim<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 7/27/16 6:30 PM, Antonioli Dan wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>I have a deck project coming up that will require the use of copper green to treat the cut ends of pressure-treated wood. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>I was hoping to find a viable alternative to copper green but am not coming up with much, and nothing from our local lumber yards that proudly advertise themselves as committed to green building and green products. They carry some green products but for the most part are not very green, and my inquires about wood treatment have not resulted in anything other than conventional knowledge. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Any products anyone has used with good results? I have a respirator and latex gloves and will use copper green if necessary, but I’d like to think that by now we’d have a viable alternative to PT!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Dan<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Greenbuilding mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:purple'>Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>--<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><Footer w Logo for Emails.jpg><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:purple'>Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Greenbuilding mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:purple'>Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>--<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><Footer w Logo for Emails.jpg><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:purple'>Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>Greenbuilding mailing list<br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:purple'>Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>