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<DIV>I’ll do that this evening and let you know. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dave has a new email, but I don’t. Our server quit offering
netins.net addresses, so Dave had to let everyone know his new address.
Mine is the same.</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=colsen@fairpoint.net>Clarke
Olsen</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 26, 2016 12:30 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=greenbuilding@lists.bioenergylists.org>Green
Building</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Greenbuilding] thermal implications of a vault vs flat
ceiling at R-38?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>My
vote is for a pan ceiling: a pointed peak just exaggerates heat
stratification.<BR>
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<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">Clarke
Olsen<BR><A href="http://clarkeolsendesign.com">clarkeolsendesign.com</A><BR>373
route 203<BR>Spencertown, NY 12165
<BR>USA<BR>518-392-4640<BR>colsen@taconic.net<BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Nov 26, 2016, at 12:57 PM, Reuben Deumling
<<A>9watts@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
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<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 9:44 AM, RT <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A target=_blank>ArchiLogic@yahoo.ca</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
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<DIV>On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 12:17:20 -0500, Reuben Deumling <<A
target=_blank>9watts@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<BR>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>> restoring farmhouse ...roof .. 12-in-12 pitch, </DIV><SPAN>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>> new rafters are 2x6 and I'm going to run 2x4s perpendicular to
them</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></SPAN><SPAN>
<DIV>> What I haven't decided is whether to leave the ceiling vaulted or
frame in a normal flat ceiling at 8 or 9 feet<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV>Reuben;</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It's unclear to me whether you're leaving the existing roof as-is and
just adding a "cap" over the flat roof at the peak or installing new rafters
from the top plate of the second storey walls.<BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I've scabbed 2x6 rafters onto what was still usable of the original 2x4
rafters and run them to the ridge. Where this was not feasible I started
afresh with 2x6s from fascia to ridge/hip. 26 years ago I did a version of
your cap idea to this house, but in no small part thanks to what I've learned
here on the greenbuilding list over the past 16 years it was time to redo this
particular fix. The flat part of the original (up to 1990) roof left less than
five feet of height upstairs, which was not exactly ideal as living space,
inspiring the first modification. <BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If the latter, I'd be inclined to configure the new 2x lumber as 24"
deep spaced rafters (aka site-built parallel chord trusses using 12" wide x
24" deep plywood gussets spaced at 1/3 or 1/5 points along the span of the
rafter) rather than as the proposed 2x6 rafters with 2x4 purlins.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The 24 inch rafter depth would make for very strong, stiff
rafters that would also allow for 18"-plus of insulation and a
ventilation air space over the insulation .</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>That would indeed be a lot of insulation. Given that there are a number
of dormers poking through this hip roof, the logistics of making this work
would be daunting. The plywood gussets were definitely a close second to my
chosen criss-cross pattern of rafters and purlins. I settled on the purlins
mostly because it seemed to me to offer the simplest/most effective thermal
break option I could think of. <BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for vaulted vs flat ceiling : I'd put a collar tie
across the rafters and utilise that collar tie as the top of ceiling with
sloped ceiling below that point. </DIV>
<DIV>"Soaring" (or as one realtor's mis-print appropriated called it
"sorrowing") vaulted ceilings that extend all the way to a pointy peak get
old pretty quick. Pointy-peaked vaults may be well suited for
structures intended for the Divine but for mortals, modest vaults
truncated by ceilings at collar ties are IMO, more appropriate to the human
scale.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Yes to collar ties. But the length of these collar ties still remains
undecided. <BR>In the last one of these I did I sized the collar tie to be
invisible by keeping its profile low enough to not poke through where the 11"
thick insulated panels on both sides of the ridge met. I'm leaning toward a
flat ceiling thinking through the ventilation issue more, but am open to any
and all suggestions.<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
---- * ----</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If the proposal is just to extend the slope of the existing roof by
adding a "cap" over the flat roof at the peak of the existing roof, I think
that I'd look at making the "cap" portion as a glass over-roof that would
function as an enclosure for a solar batch heater (if feasible in that
locale) or a small wintergarten or rooftop greenhouse or clothes dryer or
[other]. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>PS: This message was CC'd to Reuben just in case the Listserver
software inexplicably removes the body of the message and sends out a null
message again.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=m_2758766085944439107M2Signature>
<DIV>-- </DIV>
<DIV>=== * ===<BR>Rob Tom T6015O<BR>Kanata, Ontario, Canada<BR><BR>< A r
c h i L o g i c at Y a h o o dot C a ><BR><BR>(manually winnow the chaff
from my edress if you hit "Reply")</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>Greenbuilding
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