<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000066" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><font face="Arial">Wow, thank you for the detail!</font></p>
<p>I will have to raise the house up 24-30" in order to be on grade
with the septic at the south side. The other 3 sides will have
some variant of a retaining wall or slope. I have concerns about
the Legalitt from that perspective as well. That and the level of
insulation--I've traditionally done R34 under the slab. They do
have a water system option, but I've not yet found the pipe
diameter specs on the website for it.<br>
</p>
<p>I've always thought concrete to be a better transfer medium for
radiant heat. Do you notice a difference with your floor system?</p>
<p>Lynelle<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-07-16 10:58 PM, John Salmen
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:01be01d2fea8$a8bb8c70$fa32a550$@ca">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered
medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]-->
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Gill Sans MT";
panose-1:2 11 5 2 2 1 4 2 2 3;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#000066;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0cm;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:#000066;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Interesting.
If a slab is to be used I am a fan of frost protected
foundations or integrated footing in a cold climate. A lot
less ground invasive and a lot less concrete. Not so
effective here on the west coast as we don’t need much
depth.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Now
‘if a slab is to be used’ in a consistently cold place
heating the slab makes sense if there is sufficient
insulation below. The use of air has a very ancient history
– as does water. Air though only contains a tiny fraction of
the energy storage potential of water. They will both
transfer heat but what it means practically is that air will
transfer heat quickly and water will transfer it more
slowly. From here on it it gets more complicated looking at
pumps and fans to figure out who is working more efficiently
but strong suspicion would be that water flow would be
drawing less energy (heated to a lower temperature, slow
pumping velocity)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">What
is generally more important to me environmentally is both
minimizing materials and being a bit qualitative about what
the material is for the job it needs to do. We currently
waste a lot of materials on buildings. What seems like a
good idea is often bad design.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Look
at the pictures on the lego slab site. A structural slab can
be as thin as 3” and work well if reinforced properly. The
buildup they have with what looks like 2-3” pvc pipe (or in
another picture galvanized duct would probably require 6-8”
of concrete. That is a lot of energy intensive material to
no structural effect (simply contains pipe). Someone could
try to make an argument about ‘mass’ but typically a well
insulated drywalled house with a few tile floors has more
than enough ‘mass’. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Also
a radiant water slab is typically ½” polyethylene pipe
classed as either a type 1 or 2 plastic – a bit better on
the scale than PVC which is a type 3 and has long been
recognized as not the greatest – in comparison.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The
most important element is insulation and they are using
plastifab brand type 1 expanded polystyrene. About 98.8
percent air and 1.1 percent of some vinyl monomer (PVC) –
expanded with pentane. I don’t have issues with that so much
as it is effective for the job it is doing and can go having
some life as it is a solid isolatable and recyclable
material (for some uses). Its wholesale cost is generally
abound 16 cents a board foot and retails for about 3 times
that. There are better foams and monomers out there but
guess what PVC is cheap – so industry uses it. What can we
do but be efficient with what industry gives us thankful
people.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I
italicized ‘if you use a slab’ as I’ve eliminated concrete
slabs in projects as only a footing is required for load
bearing elements and have used the foam as the floor system
with ply sheathing laminated over the foam supporting
interior walls and finished floors. Radiant heating tubes
are imbedded in the foam. An FPS footing can be done without
an integrated slab. Check with your engineer. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks
for the opportunity to comment on that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Best<br>
John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> Greenbuilding
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:greenbuilding-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lynelle Hamilton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 16, 2017 6:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Green Building<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Greenbuilding] Anyone know about the
Legalett Slab System<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Gill Sans
MT","sans-serif"">Has anyone had any
experience with this?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Gill Sans
MT","sans-serif"">Many thanks!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Gill Sans
MT","sans-serif"">Lynelle</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt"
cellpadding="0" border="1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt
.75pt .75pt .75pt" width="55">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="border:solid windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none"><img
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part1.0F904D40.21BA796D@lahamilton.com"
alt="Image removed by sender." class=""
height="29" width="46" border="0"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt
.75pt .75pt" width="470">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#41424E">Virus-free.
<a
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#4453EA">www.avast.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Greenbuilding mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org">Greenbuilding@bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>