[Stoves] What will people pay for a stove?

[Otto Formo]

Dear Xavier,
I very much agree on what you are commenting.
To your last statement on unversial stoves:
"................ I first got some difficulties to find my way in stoves : so many prototypes, models, versions.
 I think stovers should start to organize information, and propose a list, with very
> detailed and comprehensive plans, of the best stoves in each category, so
> they are ready to use. They should tend to make universal stoves, to attract
> entrepreneurs that do not necessarily have a training of thermal engineer".

The first thing the "Alliance Technology and Fuels Working Group??" should do, was to set up an objective overview of different types of stoves and how they perform related to different types of fuel etc.
The second step would be to join forces to improve those stoves "choosen" to be "accepable" by an independet institution and skilled members, based on certain facts and tests.
Paal and I have been asking for such a set up for quite some time and even made some suggestion to Tom Mills.
So far nothing has happend.
Lets hope for some fruitfull progress in the new year.
Otto 

> From: Xavier Brandao [xvr.brandao at gmail.com]
> Sent: 2010-12-04 16:43:16 MET
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] What will people pay for a stove?
> 
> Dear all,
> 
>  
> 
> I think affordability and willingness to pay are two very different things.
> The latter can be way below the first if the people do not know your
> product, do not know you, if your product is not attractive and is not a
> priority for them. In the urban areas of South Benin, people have money.
> Well for African people, they do have money, when they want to.
> 
>  
> 
> Charlie Sellers rightly pointed out " in Central/South America I certainly
> see the leaking of cash on hand - no matter how low the local income, kids
> seem to have money for a frozen chocolate covered banana". It is the same in
> Benin, to an even larger extent : if they easily buy small milk ice cream
> "Fan Milk" (100 F, or 20 cents of dollars) , they can buy a few beers for
> friends at the table during weekends (a few thousands francs, let's say up
> to 10 dollars). When a even remote member of the family dies, they organise
> very expensive ceremonies with the extended family, friends, even with
> accointances. They rent tables, chairs, shelters, audio equipment, they eat
> and drink until they get sick. They can go in debts just for a memorable
> ceremony. But they will already find a fuel-efficient 10 dollars stove
> expensive. Stoves are usually sold from 1 to 5 dollars. A good ceremony is
> never too expensive, a stove can be.
> 
>  
> 
> So we have to start thinking like developing countries customers, not like
> Western engineers. An inventor can make a great and sophisticated stove,
> intelligently using heat transfer and conservation principles, customers
> won't see easily what is so great about it, and if it is too expensive, it
> will not be more than a prototype. 
> 
> I think the first thing to do for a Western entrepreneur / project leader
> working on a stove project in Africa, and certainly in the developing world,
> is to study ethnology and sociology of the local area. To get to think like
> the people he / she work for.
> 
>  
> 
> Dr. N. Sai Bhaskar Reddy said : "Sustainability model - This is demand based
> adoption of good stove - community can afford and are also willing. In this
> model Good Stoves would be adopted, because best stoves are costly or
> community is not ready to adopt. In the future many current best stoves
> become good stoves as we always try to work on the best."
> 
> I agree : a sustainable model has to be demand-based. I like this concept of
> "good stoves" and "best stoves". We should be cautious with the salability
> of best stoves. As a businessman, I'd rather sell a good 5 dollars stove
> than a best 80 dollars stove. If it is only saving 40% charcoal rather than
> 90%, well, that's good enough if I can reach 50 000 people rather than 1000.
> 
>  
> 
> I have the feeling the "stove world" sometimes lacks a marketing approach.
> We shouldn't need to educate and sensitize people about a stove. Does
> Coca-Cola educate people about its products? They make products that appeal
> to the people, wherever in the world and are salable right away. Principles
> of marketing basically say that we should make the product likable to the
> people, not make the people like our product. We have to think the other way
> round! We have to shift from a serious, practical, boring object to a cool,
> sexy object. This has to be done by designing, branding, packaging,
> marketing. There's room for improvement here! I am sure that people would
> not only buy stoves because of their quality and efficiency. A big part of
> their decision to buy resides in the fact they love their design, they saw
> the advertisement on TV, because it is a know brand and it is an object of
> status. What you call intangible reasons. We are all the same, when we buy,
> it is often with the heart, not with the brain.
> 
>  
> 
> About the concept of a universal stove, I do not agree with the idea there
> isn't a universal stove. The design of a nice-looking manufactured stove
> like Stovetec, Philips or Envirofit stoves, is likely to appeal to 90% of
> the customers of the developing and developed world alike. If it is in a
> nice package, with a nice sticker, if it is colourful, it will be
> "universally" accepted. An easy to make, easy to use smokeless charcoal
> stove, which save 50% of charcoal compared to most traditional stoves, and
> made of sheet metal you can find everywhere, is likely to be a successful
> product, whatever the market. I think a price of 5 dollars, except in some
> areas like Zambia, is a universal price, etc. etc. 
> 
> This kind of charcoal stove is the one I am looking, by the way :) For the
> moment the Pulumusa and the improved Malgache are the most universal I could
> find.
> 
>  
> 
> I am rather new in the stove field, and I first got some difficulties to
> find my way in stoves : so many prototypes, models, versions. I think
> stovers should start to organize information, and propose a list, with very
> detailed and comprehensive plans, of the best stoves in each category, so
> they are ready to use. They should tend to make universal stoves, to attract
> entrepreneurs that do not necessarily have a training of thermal engineer.
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>  
> 
> Xavier Brandao
> 
>  
> 
> (+229) 66 37 89 59
> 
> xvr.brandao at gmail.com
> 
> skype : x.brandao
> 
>  
>