[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 12, Issue 13
IPC
ipcipc at mweb.co.za
Mon Aug 8 05:07:14 CDT 2011
@Crispin Message: 4 Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:40:34 -0400
Glycerine is a glut on the market because it is ~50% of the plant carbon
that goes into biodiesel. It doesn't burn very well at all and is
hygroscopic to boot. However, I found some recent work that it can be used
directly as diesel fuel with minor mods to the engine to preheat the air.
It's rather low energy, but for a cheap waste fuel that's no drawback.
Prof Philip Lloyd
Energy Institute
Cape Peninsula University of Technology
PO Box 652, Cape Town 8000
Tel:021 460 4216
Fax:021 460 3828
Cell: 083 441 5247
-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
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Sent: 08 August 2011 06:52
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 12, Issue 13
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Jatropha and its future (Fireside Hearth)
2. Re: Jatropha and its future (Anand Karve)
3. Re: Jatropha and its future (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
4. Re: Jatropha and its future (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
5. Re: Jatropha and its future (Fireside Hearth)
6. Re: Chimney Chula (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
7. Re: Jatropha and its future (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
8. Re: Jatropha and its future (Anand Karve)
9. Re: institutional rocket stoves (Larry Winiarski)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 13:23:00 -0700
From: Fireside Hearth <firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com>
To: <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future
Message-ID: <blu125-w323673D36BDC4E2F10E23C33E0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Interesting idea........Are the any records kept on how cleanly and or how
much maintenance might be involved. Example.....corn feed stoves have allot
of klinkering due to the sugar content if I understand correctly. We might
be able to utilize more of these fuels than I realize at this point as I
have not had enough time to test these things out. Our focus has had to stay
more narrow than I would like due to the "business side" of our growth. I
did for a while mess with burning Glycerine from bio diesel manufacturing.
Althoe I have not dismissed this avenue I do feel it is a messy process. The
glycerine heats up and "melts" much like paraffin wax and could become a
fire hazard. I am interested as I am coming to a point of less business and
more inventing to try alternative fuel sources......any ideas???
Thank you R&B
From: crispinpigott at gmail.com
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:36:59 -0400
Subject: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future
Dear FriendsI am not sure how many stove are being worked on as Jatropha
seed or oil or cake burners, but my understanding was the main thrust was to
put to use some of the leftovers from biofuel production, especially that
was the focus in Tanzania.It seems those farmers who invested in Jatropha
production lost about $65 per ha
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es201943v so my question is whether or
not there is much point in working on (perhaps) whole seed stoves. Perhaps
if the J-oil industry suffers a quick death there will still be a meaningful
supply of oily seed fuel that can be burned relatively easily with a decent
performance and controllability. At least until they go back to sunflower
which looks a lot more promising.Has anyone made a sunflower seed burning
stove? The oil runs up to 49% on some varieties.Always looking for new
ideas?RegardsCrispin _______________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 11:28:33 +0800
From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future
Message-ID:
<CACPy7SesHn=NWOpzsxUrmfO9hpA+BSbCNO7gh-HPK1L00UPQiQ at mail.gmail.com>
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Dear Crispin,
we have in India castor hybrids that can yield upto 5 tons of seed or
2.5 ton oil per ha. Only Malaysian oil palm can outyield hybrid castor.
Castor oil acts as a purgative if one gulps it directly, but if used in
cooking or frying, whereby it gets mixed with other type of food, it loses
its purgative effect and it is digested by the human system like any other
vegetable oil. Castor oilcake is however highly toxic because of the
presence of ricin in it, but it is a great feedstock for producing biogas.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 2:36 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<crispinpigott at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Friends
>
> I am not sure how many stove are being worked on as Jatropha seed or
> oil or cake burners, but my understanding was the main thrust was to
> put to use some of the leftovers from biofuel production, especially
> that was the focus in Tanzania.
>
> It seems those farmers who invested in Jatropha production lost about
> $65 per ha http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es201943v so my
> question is whether or not there is much point in working on (perhaps)
> whole seed stoves. Perhaps if the J-oil industry suffers a quick death
> there will still be a meaningful supply of oily seed fuel that? can be
> burned relatively easily with a decent performance and
> controllability. At least until they go back to sunflower which looks a
lot more promising.
>
> Has anyone made a sunflower seed burning stove? The oil runs up to 49%
> on some varieties.
>
> Always looking for new ideas?
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenerg
> ylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
--
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
*Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:33:28 -0400
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future
Message-ID: <112c01cc557b$f11bc890$d35359b0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Dr AD
I was under the impression that the castor oil had to be de-toxified at some
level. There is a product called Covo Oil, a castor cooking oil, that has
been treated, we were told. Not so?
Interesting. The article I linked says in a couple of places that Jatropha
has not been 'domesticated' with the result that the yields are erratic.
Strange, that.
I can't think of anything close to those oil yields. The best I know of for
sunflower is 49% variety but it is not a high mass one. The heavier
yielding have 47% so more total oil but still, 2 tons would be good on dry
land.
I take it that the castor is not irrigated, correct?
The cake is 50% of the crop so 2.5 tons gives how much biogas? And how much
'leftovers'?
Thanks
Crispin
-----Original Message-----
Dear Crispin,
we have in India castor hybrids that can yield upto 5 tons of seed or
2.5 ton oil per ha. Only Malaysian oil palm can outyield hybrid castor.
Castor oil acts as a purgative if one gulps it directly, but if used in
cooking or frying, whereby it gets mixed with other type of food, it loses
its purgative effect and it is digested by the human system like any other
vegetable oil. Castor oilcake is however highly toxic because of the
presence of ricin in it, but it is a great feedstock for producing biogas.
Yours
A.D.Karve
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:40:34 -0400
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future
Message-ID: <112d01cc557c$eeb6ba00$cc242e00$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Roger
Alex English can comment on the corn burning, but I think it is from ash
melting that you get the clinkering. Sugar burns really well at a low
temperature.
With all crops, there are many tons that are spoiled for various reasons.
Therefore there is always a market for them. Aflatoxin (and zearalanone)
contamination is a problem in some countries and it would be good if it were
burned rather than fed to slightly more tolerant animals. That stuff is bad
news.
Mouldy maize is usually mixed with good maize to meet some local standard
but still, there is a lot that can't be used for food or feed. So, into the
fire. Rancid grains, rotten wheat, mouldy oats - we should turn them into
fuel as it is biomass and already pelletized!
The advantage of using glycerine is that it doesn't spill well and kids are
unlikely to drink it. Like gelled alcohol, it melts at just the right
temperature and could me a good fuel. Could you get a smell-less burn? That
would be an indication the burn was good for a start.
There is a wax burning stove developed in South Africa and Sasol (Sasolwax
in an earlier name) was interested in it generally, and developing their own
stove commercially, which I have never seen in the wild. There is a lot of
leftover wax from various industrial processes, just as there are many
alcohols left over from sugar making - like 100 types! Into the fire!
Regards
Crispin
++++
Interesting idea........Are the any records kept on how cleanly and or how
much maintenance might be involved. Example.....corn feed stoves have allot
of klinkering due to the sugar content if I understand correctly. We might
be able to utilize more of these fuels than I realize at this point as I
have not had enough time to test these things out. Our focus has had to stay
more narrow than I would like due to the "business side" of our growth. I
did for a while mess with burning Glycerine from bio diesel manufacturing.
Althoe I have not dismissed this avenue I do feel it is a messy process. The
glycerine heats up and "melts" much like paraffin wax and could become a
fire hazard. I am interested as I am coming to a point of less business and
more inventing to try alternative fuel sources......any ideas???
Thank you R&B
_____
From: crispinpigott at gmail.com
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:36:59 -0400
Subject: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future
Dear Friends
I am not sure how many stove are being worked on as Jatropha seed or oil or
cake burners, but my understanding was the main thrust was to put to use
some of the leftovers from biofuel production, especially that was the focus
in Tanzania.
It seems those farmers who invested in Jatropha production lost about $65
per ha http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es201943v so my question is
whether or not there is much point in working on (perhaps) whole seed
stoves. Perhaps if the J-oil industry suffers a quick death there will still
be a meaningful supply of oily seed fuel that can be burned relatively
easily with a decent performance and controllability. At least until they go
back to sunflower which looks a lot more promising.
Has anyone made a sunflower seed burning stove? The oil runs up to 49% on
some varieties.
Always looking for new ideas.
Regards
Crispin
_______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to Send
a Message to the list, use the email address stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:19:48 -0700
From: Fireside Hearth <firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com>
To: <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future
Message-ID: <BLU125-W6CB7441F49D537DFA9F0AC3210 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Thank you Crispin....
These are all great ideas! Do you have any gut level sense of
what downsides there could be with regard to emission? would I find these to
be "fairly clean" fuel options? The glycerine did produce a scent/smoke free
burn once temperatures got high enough, however getting there was both
smelly and irritating. My delivery system I believe will need to advance to
(possibly) a fuel injector, unless something less complicated (oil drip) can
be thought up with any reliability. I actually started this project as a
pellet stove with a simple 12 volt auger and timing block system. I could go
back to that to push grains, seeds, or pitts....even dung! The electrical
demand would be covered by solar, and at some time I wish to experiment
further with thermocoupling the stove for a truly off grid, self powered
pellet stove. I am saving these posts which get me thinking so once my
current project is underway I can revisit them. With the level of expertise
represented here many things are exciting possibilities......this is one
e-mail I will save for the near future and look for more information on as I
develop new ideas. Thank you very much.
Roger
From: crispinpigott at gmail.com
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 23:40:34 -0400
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future
Dear Roger Alex English can comment on the corn burning, but I think it is
from ash melting that you get the clinkering. Sugar burns really well at a
low temperature. With all crops, there are many tons that are spoiled for
various reasons. Therefore there is always a market for them. Aflatoxin (and
zearalanone) contamination is a problem in some countries and it would be
good if it were burned rather than fed to slightly more tolerant animals.
That stuff is bad news. Mouldy maize is usually mixed with good maize to
meet some local standard but still, there is a lot that can?t be used for
food or feed. So, into the fire. Rancid grains, rotten wheat, mouldy oats ?
we should turn them into fuel as it is biomass and already pelletized! The
advantage of using glycerine is that it doesn?t spill well and kids are
unlikely to drink it. Like gelled alcohol, it melts at just the right
temperature and could me a good fuel. Could you get a smell-less burn? That
would be an indication the burn was good for a start. There is a wax burning
stove developed in South Africa and Sasol (Sasolwax in an earlier name) was
interested in it generally, and developing their own stove commercially,
which I have never seen in the wild. There is a lot of leftover wax from
various industrial processes, just as there are many alcohols left over from
sugar making ? like 100 types! Into the fire! RegardsCrispin
++++Interesting idea........Are the any records kept on how cleanly and or
how much maintenance might be involved. Example.....corn feed stoves have
allot of klinkering due to the sugar content if I understand correctly. We
might be able to utilize more of these fuels than I realize at this point as
I have not had enough time to test these things out. Our focus has had to
stay more narrow than I would like due to the "business side" of our growth.
I did for a while mess with burning Glycerine from bio diesel manufacturing.
Althoe I have not dismissed this avenue I do feel it is a messy process. The
glycerine heats up and "melts" much like paraffin wax and could become a
fire hazard. I am interested as I am coming to a point of less business and
more inventing to try alternative fuel sources......any ideas???
Thank you R&B From: crispinpigott at gmail.com
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:36:59 -0400
Subject: [Stoves] Jatropha and its futureDear FriendsI am not sure how many
stove are being worked on as Jatropha seed or oil or cake burners, but my
understanding was the main thrust was to put to use some of the leftovers
from biofuel production, especially that was the focus in Tanzania.It seems
those farmers who invested in Jatropha production lost about $65 per ha
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es201943v so my question is whether or
not there is much point in working on (perhaps) whole seed stoves. Perhaps
if the J-oil industry suffers a quick death there will still be a meaningful
supply of oily seed fuel that can be burned relatively easily with a decent
performance and controllability. At least until they go back to sunflower
which looks a lot more promising.Has anyone made a sunflower seed burning
stove? The oil runs up to 49% on some varieties.Always looking for new
ideas?RegardsCrispin _______________________________________________ Stoves
mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings
use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
.org for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://www.bioenergylists.org/
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
.org
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://www.bioenergylists.org/
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 00:25:21 -0400
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Chimney Chula
Message-ID: <114d01cc5583$3108d180$931a7480$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Xavier
>Do you know any stove or any way to build a stove which would be small,
even if it needs to deliver high power to cook on big pots?
You can build the stove to one side and pipe the hot gases into the side and
under the pot, exiting on the other side into a chimney. This, in essence,
is what the modified Mongolian coal stoves do when heating water (for space
heating).
Cooking height is very important to many cultures. Fan stoves hold a lot of
promise getting the height down because you are able to produce a compact,
intense flame.
>Have you faced user acceptance issues because of the stove size ?
Nearly all stoves developers working in India have been facing that
challenge. It seems to be a bigger problem there than in many other places
which are more interested in looks, power and 'pride of ownership'.
Many really inexpensive stoves are short because they are simple and don't
have much flame space, and they use little material, but they could often be
shortened further.
The JIKO is not as short as it could be - it only needs a small amount of
space for ash and air under the grate. Fashion is probably has as much to do
with it as blindly imitating our fathers.
Regards
Crispin
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 00:35:46 -0400
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future
Message-ID: <115401cc5584$a5b86170$f1292450$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Roger
The glycerine-as-fuel is interesting. There is a lot of glycerine produced
in the oil pumping business - it sticks to the inside of the pipes. What
happen to it these days? Vaseline was developed to get rid of it at a
profit!
If it is cheap (might not be) it can be 'canned' like ethanol gel. Ethanol
does not have a very high heat content (hence the poor mileage cars
currently get compared with real gasoline). Watered-down ethanol is pretty
crummy. James Robinson at the SeTAR Centre has seem some at 18 MJ/Litre or
even less. Prof Philip Lloyd was running a stove on a fuel that had so much
water in it, it was condensing on the underside of the pot and dripped so
much it extinguished the fire!! Ha ha!
So what is the heat content of glycerine? How much does it cost? Where does
it come from? Is there much available? What is the melting temperature?
Philip: what is the vapour pressure and so on? Have you ever tried burning
it? [Philip reads this list.]
Most alcohol burning stoves are terrible - that is my biased assessment.
They are usually choked to death near the evaporation zone and have very
short flame spaces, followed by too much air supply, yielding a smelly burn
- smelling like partly burned gel compound. We test quite a number of them.
There is a belief that if the fuel is ethanol, the emissions are inherently
low, which is not true. The emissions are potentially low because the fuel
is usually pretty good, but emissions are produced by the stove+fuel
combination. If the burner is poorly constructed, it's gonna smell.
You know those little pots of flame under the vegetables at the restaurant
buffet? Terrible combustion efficiency. Lotsa CO.
Regards
Crispin
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Fireside
Hearth
Sent: 08 August 2011 00:20
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future
Thank you Crispin....
These are all great ideas! Do you have any gut level sense of
what downsides there could be with regard to emission? would I find these to
be "fairly clean" fuel options? The glycerine did produce a scent/smoke free
burn once temperatures got high enough, however getting there was both
smelly and irritating. My delivery system I believe will need to advance to
(possibly) a fuel injector, unless something less complicated (oil drip) can
be thought up with any reliability. I actually started this project as a
pellet stove with a simple 12 volt auger and timing block system. I could go
back to that to push grains, seeds, or pitts....even dung! The electrical
demand would be covered by solar, and at some time I wish to experiment
further with thermocoupling the stove for a truly off grid, self powered
pellet stove. I am saving these posts which get me thinking so once my
current project is underway I can revisit them. With the level of expertise
represented here many things are exciting possibilities......this is one
e-mail I will save for the near future and look for more information on as I
develop new ideas. Thank you very much.
Roger
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 12:44:46 +0800
From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Jatropha and its future
Message-ID:
<CACPy7SfNLoXaDuCHCHHqYZWkPFXrV0p5h6r+wjrvrXMdCKyqKQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Dear Crispin,
Because of lack of plant breeding input, Jatropha yields only about 1 ton
seed per ha and the oil % in the seed is only 30%. Indian farmers had been
growing castor for at least 2000 years, and they have conducted a lot of
selection and breeding to develop many high yielding varieties. The main
ingredient of castor oil is ricinoleic acid, which irritates the mucous
membranes of the stomach and intestine, which then secrete fluids to wash
the irritation off. That is the reason of the purgative effect. If castor
oil is mixed with other food, the ricinoleic acid is diluted and owing to
longer residence time in the stomach and intestine, it gets digested. Castor
oil cake gets completely digested in the biogas plant and all of it gets
converted into biogas. I do not have reliable figures, but I think that 1 kg
of castor oil cake would yield about 1000 litres biogas.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<crispinpigott at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Dr AD
>
> I was under the impression that the castor oil had to be de-toxified
> at some level. There is a product called Covo Oil, a castor cooking
> oil, that has been treated, we were told. Not so?
>
> Interesting. The article I linked says in a couple of places that
> Jatropha has not been 'domesticated' with the result that the yields are
erratic.
> Strange, that.
>
> I can't think of anything close to those oil yields. The best I know
> of for sunflower is 49% variety but it is not a high mass one. ?The
> heavier yielding have 47% so more total oil but still, 2 tons would be
> good on dry land.
>
> I take it that the castor is not irrigated, correct?
>
> The cake is 50% of the crop so 2.5 tons gives how much biogas? And how
> much 'leftovers'?
>
> Thanks
> Crispin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Dear Crispin,
> we have in India castor hybrids that can yield upto 5 tons of seed or
> 2.5 ton oil per ha. Only Malaysian oil palm can outyield hybrid castor.
> Castor oil acts as a purgative if one gulps it directly, but if used
> in cooking or frying, whereby it gets mixed with other type of food,
> it loses its purgative effect and it is digested by the human system
> like any other vegetable oil. Castor oilcake is however highly toxic
> because of the presence of ricin in it, but it is a great feedstock for
producing biogas.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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Dr. A.D. Karve
President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
*Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:55:26 -0700
From: "Larry Winiarski" <larryw at gotsky.com>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] institutional rocket stoves
Message-ID: <4324D3276D584812B9385E99B781F060 at larryspc>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Dear Xavier
Sometimes , where they have dirt floor, I sink part of the institutional
rocket stove into the ground and use a sloped feed or vertical feed . In
thedown feed, the combustion camber is then J shaped rather then L shaped
and I use a horizontal tile or brick to hold up the sticks and control the
air gap so that the air goes down the sticks to cool them and blow the
flames into the tunnel. One can also dig a short trench in fron of the
sticks and use a moveable big brick or block to hold the sticks vertical.
One can also take this block out of the way and feed the sticks horizontal
or clean out the ash.
God Bless
Larry Winiarski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Xavier Brandao" <xvr.brandao at gmail.com>
To: <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 5:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Chimney Chula
> Crispin and stovers,
>
> "An advantage (for India) is the very low cooking height": I think it is
> not
> only for India, we are facing this question at the moment in Benin. We
> made
> an institutional rocket stove for the restaurant of the main university.
> They are testing it at the moment, if they like it, all universities in
> Benin could have these stoves. The first thing the cooks said when they
> saw
> the stove was : "it is too high". Men and women in South-Benin are rather
> short-sized. The stoves they use traditionally are very short. They can
> stand up, using a big spoon with a long handle.
> We got this remark from other places, but people accepted, liked and used
> the stoves anyway. But it is the first time we get such "strong"
> criticism,
> almost opposition. I said they would have to try it for a week or more,
> and
> then give us their remarks. End-users of the equipment often fear they
> will
> be imposed decision by people working above them and sitting in office.
>
> The rocket stove combustion chamber grows with the pot size. So does the
> pot
> skirt. In the restaurant, they use only 50 kilos round pots, the biggest
> ones I have ever seen. The stove we made had to be tall : perhaps 1.10 -
> 1.20 meter high. It was one of the tallest we ever made. The women said
> they
> would burn their arms on the hot skirt, and on the top of the pot, when
> they
> will reach food in the bottom of the pot.
> They asked us to reduce the size, we said we couldn't since it was due to
> the technology, and that a shorter stove would be less clean and
> efficient.
> We'll see in one week how they liked the stoves.
>
> Traditional stoves are convenient to use, but as you said they make "not
> enough flame space to complete the combustion well."
> All the institutional stoves I know (rocket, Lion stove, Esperanza stove,
> LEGO stove) and some other wood stove (Justa stove, Lorena stove) seem all
> to be working on the same principle: a combustion chamber tall enough for
> the fire to burn properly, then the shape can vary. If the pot is big, so
> must be the stove.
>
> Do you know any stove or any way to build a stove which would be small,
> even
> if it needs to deliver high power to cook on big pots? Have you faced user
> acceptance issues because of the stove size ?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Xavier
>
>
>
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 09:46:14 -0400
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] Chimney Chula
> Message-ID: <101001cc5376$0d935ef0$28ba1cd0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Friends
>
> http://www.designtoimprovelife.dk/index.php?option=com_content
>
<http://www.designtoimprovelife.dk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article
> &id=81&Itemid=63> &view=article&id=81&Itemid=63
>
> It gets some recognition. Looks like a combination of an Esperanza stove
> (small Lion with side-fed air) and a Lorena with pre-cast parts. Metal
> grate
> used. I like that! It gives all air preheating.
>
> An advantage (for India) is the very low cooking height though there is
> obviously not enough flame space to complete the combustion well.
>
> Good looking.
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
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End of Stoves Digest, Vol 12, Issue 13
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