[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 12, Issue 45
IPC
ipcipc at mweb.co.za
Wed Aug 24 15:50:53 CDT 2011
Re Crispin and his caking/coking coals
There is a difference - many coals cake but don't coke; virtually all coking
coals cake. See Britannica "When many bituminous coals are heated, they
soften and form a plastic mass that swells and resolidifies into a porous
solid. Coals that exhibit such behaviour are called caking coals. Strongly
caking coals, which yield a solid product (coke) with properties suitable
for use in a blast furnace, are called coking coals. All coking coals are
caking, but not all caking coals are suitable for coke"
Prof Philip Lloyd
Energy Institute
Cape Peninsula University of Technology
PO Box 652, Cape Town 8000
Tel:021 460 4216
Fax:021 460 3828
Cell: 083 441 5247
-----Original Message-----
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Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 12, Issue 45
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Fuel production, biochar, and feeding the stove in 2040
(Anand Karve)
2. Re: Fuel production, biochar, and feeding the stove in 2040
(Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
3. Re: Sasol Fixed Bed Dry Bottom Gasification Technology
(Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
4. Re: Sasol Fixed Bed Dry Bottom Gasification Technology
(Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2011 01:16:56 +0800
From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Fuel production, biochar, and feeding the stove
in 2040
Message-ID:
<CACPy7Sdo6_jhGGi8Qb7eUTEHzinTtubcJhTy9z4xyvYmTrXm4g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Dear Crispin,
no I did not measure the CO2 content in the topless greenhouse. The nights
are generally calm. It is the days that are windy, because during the day,
updrafts of hot air creat local low pressure areas and air from neighbouring
relatively high pressure areas flows into these low pressure areas. A woman
scientist from a university in north of Maharashtra is advocating the same
system, but she claims that the higher yield was due to static electricity
generated in the plastic film surrounding the plants. Whatever may be the
cause , the fact remains that the crops raised in a topless greenhouse give
higher yield.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<crispinpigott at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear AD
>
> I remember you telling us about this a few years ago. Very
> interesting, to say the least!
>
> I presume you have measured the CO2 concentration in the morning. What
> is it on an average day?
>
> I am wondering if the limitation on evaporation of water produced by
> limiting the wind makes a difference as well. Is this practised in a
> low wind environment? It seems the mixing by wind wouldn't leave much
> CO2 behind.
>
> There was a time (early 80's) when tobacco was grown in the US in
> greenhouses that were heated by natural gas burners that vented into
> the greenhouse. It was found that highly carcinogenic compounds were
> formed at a higher rate although it was not the higher CO2 that did
> it, it was an incomplete ?combustion product. It was quickly banned as
> a fertilisation practise about the mid-80's.
>
> I had hoped to use the emissions from stoves to fertilise things but
> so far I am unconvinced there would be a reliable and clean exhaust
> stream. If it doesn't work with something as clean as natural gas it
> is going to be more difficult with wood.
>
> Regards
> Your agro-fan Crispin
> ++++++
>
> Dear Crispin,
> that plants grow faster with supply of air containing higher amounts
> of carbon dioxide is a well known phenomenon. In fact, it is one of
> the factors contributing to higher yield in greenhouses. In peninsular
> India we grow crops throughout the year. They need neither artificial
heating nor cooling.
> Our Institute therefore developed the concept of a topless greenhouse,
> which consists of just a skirting of plastic film around plots of 10m X
10m size.
> Carbon dioxide is about 1.5 times as heavy as ordinary air. Therefore
> when plants breath out carbon dioxide in the night, the field plots
> surrounded by the plastic skirting act as tanks which store the carbon
> dioxide. In the morning, when the sun rises, the plants utilize this
> carbon dioxide in the process of photosynthesis. Because of the higher
> concentration of carbon dioxide in the air, the rate of photosynthesis is
higher.
> Although this concept has not yet been accepted by the science
> establishment, a lot of farmers have started using it to raise high
> value crops like coloured capsicum and flowers. We have not patented
> this technology. Anybody can use it.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
>
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>
>
--
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
*Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:45:29 -0400
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Fuel production, biochar, and feeding the stove
in 2040
Message-ID: <0aa601cc6285$ae781720$0b684560$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear AD
This is most interesting.
I will think about the mechanism that might assist growth based on static
charges and discharges. Something that might be related (you never know...)
is something called 'hot ice'. Ice will form from water at temperatures well
above 0 C if a voltage of about 6 million volts per meter is applied. It
turns solid. This voltage/m is easily attained at the molecular level in
proteins. It is likely that there is a lot of solid water in living biomass.
The charge from the environment might assist some process that improves
anything from the efficiency of respiration to the formation of carbon
compounds. Surrounding the field and or applying a charge to the plants does
not mean having to run a current through them. It is the static charge
itself that produces the hot ice. Its role in living organisms is probably
wholly unknown. It could just as well be a cause of releasing the solid to a
liquid form at the molecular level, allowing the proteins to be more
effective.
It is well known that enhanced CO2 reduces the water need of plants.
(Reducing the CO2 in the atmosphere increases their water demand of the
entire biome.) Perhaps, given the water available, the increased CO2 inside
the sheltered fields has the same beneficial effect on growth as light
irrigation.
I would think the difference in the two theories could be tested by putting
up wooden walls and plastic walls to compare the effects. Wood stored
outdoors is really bad at holding a static charge and the plastic is really
good.
Regards
Crispin
++++++
Dear Crispin,
no I did not measure the CO2 content in the topless greenhouse. The nights
are generally calm. It is the days that are windy, because during the day,
updrafts of hot air creat local low pressure areas and air from neighbouring
relatively high pressure areas flows into these low pressure areas. A woman
scientist from a university in north of Maharashtra is advocating the same
system, but she claims that the higher yield was due to static electricity
generated in the plastic film surrounding the plants. Whatever may be the
cause , the fact remains that the crops raised in a topless greenhouse give
higher yield.
Yours
A.D.Karve
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:50:55 -0400
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Sasol Fixed Bed Dry Bottom Gasification
Technology
Message-ID: <0aa701cc6286$615b12c0$24113840$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Steve
Ask him what caking coal is!
Crispin
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Steve Taylor
Sent: 24 August 2011 12:00
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Sasol Fixed Bed Dry Bottom Gasification Technology
On 24 August 2011 16:28, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
wrote:
Dear Friends
I think they mean coking coal not 'caking coal'. Fixed bed dry bottom
(FBDB) gasifiers are useful for thinking about how to make a pyrolysing
stove or a coal burner. Basically the idea is to avoid melting the ash.
http://www.etde.org/etdeweb/details.jsp?query_id=1
<http://www.etde.org/etdeweb/details.jsp?query_id=1&page=0&osti_id=21073841>
&page=0&osti_id=21073841
A relevant group of articles is at
http://worldwidescience.org/topicpages/s/sasol-lurgi+fbdb+gasifier.html
Ironically, I'm currently working with one of the authors from Sasol !
Steve
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:50:55 -0400
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Sasol Fixed Bed Dry Bottom Gasification
Technology
Message-ID: <0ab201cc6286$62ef2040$28cd60c0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear John
Thanks for popping up. Long time no see. How is the stove multiplication
project going?
Given that steam is added in this gasification process, is it not reasonable
to assume that wet coal (like lignite etc) will produce better combustion
that regular ?hard? coal in a small, air restricted environment?
I was thinking today that we should challenge the notion that the water gas
shift reaction is not taking place in lignite stoves. The negative position
was taken by a professor friend who felt there was no chance it could
happen. It seems to me there is little difference between what SASOL is
doing and what takes place in a Mongolian stove where we sometimes get huge
H2 readings (H2(EF) = 12,000 to 15,000 ppm) in the chimney when the burn is
not going well.
If it is working already, why not enhance it? Coal with built-in water for
the steaming part of gasification.
You da man?what?d you say??
Regards
Crispin
++++++
Crispin,
I think the article is right. ?Caking fine coal? it does not work well in
gasifiers. The coal is totally gasified to ash.
John.
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott
Sent: 24 August 2011 05:28 PM
To: Stoves
Subject: [Stoves] Sasol Fixed Bed Dry Bottom Gasification Technology
Dear Friends
I think they mean coking coal not ?caking coal?. Fixed bed dry bottom
(FBDB) gasifiers are useful for thinking about how to make a pyrolysing
stove or a coal burner. Basically the idea is to avoid melting the ash.
http://www.etde.org/etdeweb/details.jsp?query_id=1
<http://www.etde.org/etdeweb/details.jsp?query_id=1&page=0&osti_id=21073841>
&page=0&osti_id=21073841
A relevant group of articles is at
http://worldwidescience.org/topicpages/s/sasol-lurgi+fbdb+gasifier.html
Once fuels are pelletized and fed continuously, the description in the
second article is relevant: continuous operation with no ash clearing
hassles. Think: space heating and institutional stoves.
Regards
Crispin
Wednesday 24th August 2011
<http://server1.streamsend.com/streamsend/customimages/pkeeling/ecg/ecg1_ban
ner.jpg>
ACI is delighted to announce Pauli Baumann of Sasol Technology as a
confirmed speaker, delivering an overview of their recent technology
improvements and project status.
Sasol is currently deploying four additional Sasol? FBDB? gasifiers at its
Synfuels facility which will bring the total installed base to eighty-four
(84) gasifiers. Another major
milestone has been the commercial scale demonstration of an advanced Coal
Stirrer-Distributor (?CSD??) for the processing of caking coal as part of
the largest test campaign on the Sasol Test Gasifier to date
<http://server1.streamsend.com/streamsend/clicktracker.php?cd=3896&ld=1151&m
d=1230&ud=eb19538de4ef869d6026637460315f60&url=http://v11.vuturevx.com/excha
nge-sites/Whitmore%20Group/59/events-pdfs-eu/ecg1-agenda-mkt.pdf>
Company Name
<http://server1.streamsend.com/streamsend/prebuilt/28/images/blue_box_img.gi
f> Other Confirmed Speakers Include
Ilya O Solovev
Commercial Director
GE Energy
Kieron Stopforth
CCS Analyst, EMEA
Bloomberg New Energy Finance
Richard Taylor
Technical Director
Advanced Plasma Power
Ross McCracken
Editor, Energy Economist
Platts
Chris Chapman
Chief Technical Officer
Advanced Plasma Power
Prof. Ahmed Al-Shamma'a
Director of BEST Research Institute
Liverpool John Moores University
Jan Willem K?nemann
Sales Manager Renewable Technology
Dahlman Renewable Technology
Chris Higman
Principal
Higman Consulting GmbH
Company Name
<http://server1.streamsend.com/streamsend/prebuilt/28/images/blue_box_img.gi
f> Key Topics Include:
? Current and Future Industry Developments
? Economic Analysis of Gasification Projects
? Building the Case for Gasification
? Industry Focus ? Oil Refining
? Social, Policy & Environmental Barriers
? Industry Focus ? Power Plants
? Cutting-Edge Developments in Gasification Technology
? Commercial Viability of CCS in Gasification
? Maximising Syngas Potential: Opportunities through __Technology
<http://server1.streamsend.com/streamsend/clicktracker.php?cd=3896&ld=1151&m
d=1230&ud=eb19538de4ef869d6026637460315f60&url=http://www.wplgroup.com/aci/_
crosslink/register.asp%3FintSitePageId=4414>
or contact
<mailto:mahsan at acieu.co.uk?subject=Gasification%202011%20%20Registration>
Mohammad Ahsan
on +44 (0) 20 7981 2503
We look forward to welcoming you on board
Commercial Exposure Opportunities:
A wide range of opportunities are available, all of which can be finely
tuned to match your exact requirements.
For more information on available sponsorship & commercial opportunities
contact:
<mailto:production at acieu.co.uk?subject=For%20Commercial%20Opportunities%20Ec
G1> Maureen Ignacio
+44 (0) 20 7981 2501
Gasification 2011 is co-located with Future World of Biogas:
Europe 2011
For more info
<http://server1.streamsend.com/streamsend/clicktracker.php?cd=3896&ld=1151&m
d=1230&ud=eb19538de4ef869d6026637460315f60&url=http://www.acius.net/aci/conf
erences/eu-ebg1.asp> click here
<http://server1.streamsend.com/streamsend/customimages/pkeeling/ecg/11_04_en
ergos_isle_of_wight_gasification_facility.jpg>
Call For Papers:
If you would like to be considered as a speaker for the event with a 30-45
minute presentation, please submit an abstract for consideration to
<mailto:production at acieu.co.uk?subject=Call%20for%20Papers%20ECG1> John
Boateng
+44 (0) 20 7981 2501
<http://server1.streamsend.com/streamsend/customimages/pkeeling/aci_nobackgr
ound.gif>
ACI (Europe) - 5/13 Great Suffolk Street, London, SE1 0NS
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