[Stoves] Char

[Frank Shields]

Tom,

I think Tom Reed did a lot of work using TGA in analysis of different fuels
going to char and that may give a clue as to the amount of change bagasse
goes through during a temperature ramp. If bagasse was one of the fuels
used. I no longer have his email (as my computer needed a Format) and not
sure where he is selling his books. 

Frank



 
Frank Shields
Control Laboratories, Inc.
42 Hangar Way
Watsonville, CA  95076
(831) 724-5422 tel
(831) 724-3188 fax
frank at compostlab.com
www.compostlab.com
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Tom Miles
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 7:05 AM
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
Cc: 'Biochar-production'
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Char

Ron,

Frank seems to say that bagasse chars while composting at 70C. It is clearly
not just heated to 70C but undergoes biological degradation at the same
time. apparently the higher temperature biological conversion creates a char
that resists degradation. I assume that there is a loss of carbon in the
process.

Is this "biothermal carbonization"? It could prove to be an interesting
technique for rural applications.  

Tom     

-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
rongretlarson at comcast.net
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 1:58 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Cc: Biochar-production
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Char

Tom and Frank:, stoves list (and adding "biochar-production" ) 

1. To Tom: Are you asking if one gets better compost at this higher
temperature? 

2. To Frank: This is the first time I have heard of "char" being produced at
anything under about 300 C - usually 400 C and above. Can you clarify? I
would think this dark product would disappear from the soil about as fast as
any other compost. Even Torrification requires temperatures well above 70 o
C. Although it would be great to hear more on this material in any case -
which is maybe what Tom is asking. 

One exception is that HTC (hydrothermal carbonization) (maybe called
hydrochar) occurs at 230 o C (with corresponding high pressure, and a
catalyst) - but might not be so recalcitrant either (recently reported - not
sure) . 


Ron 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 1:14:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Char 

Frank, 

Is there any benefit to the composting to char or heat part of the bagasse
first? 

Tom 

-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Frank Shields
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2011 11:53 AM
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' 
Subject: [Stoves] Char 


Stover's, 

Perhaps of interest, we test products for the Biodegradable Products
Institute and some are made from bagasse. When composted at low temperatures
< 45 deg C these products break down easily. But when composting
temperatures go to 70 deg C the bagasse chars and they remain as the same
structure (only darker) as the product we put in the compost. Proof that
charring is resistant to biodegradation. 


Frank 





Frank Shields
Control Laboratories, Inc. 
42 Hangar Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
(831) 724-5422 tel
(831) 724-3188 fax
frank at compostlab.com
www.compostlab.com 




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