[Stoves] Stove costs
Art Donnelly
art.donnelly at seachar.org
Mon Nov 21 20:32:08 CST 2011
Hi Jan and all,
I would like to contribute to the spread sheet on stove cost you have
proposed. The Estufa Finca is a large gasifier that we are producing with a
women's group here in rural Costa Rica. I worry a lot about it's cost. At
this point we are not "selling" them to beneficiaries. We are "leasing"
them and then offering to buy the charcoal which they produce. This will
initially be used in the biochar field trials we are participating in with
CATIE and some of our other partners. We do not know if this will work or
be sustainable. This year is a Pilot. We are using a modified version of
the Farmers Field School training protocol and our community promoters then
do regular visits to the farms to collect biochar. We want people using the
stoves. If they have a problem or need a part, there is follow-up. The
promoters have an incentive (commission) to keep them cooking. We know how
much a typical stove can produce at a rate of two meals a day. This gives
us a good indication of use.
I find the parallel discussion of what constitutes "poor" fascinating.
Costa Rica is portrayed as an emerging economy, but there are very
desperate rural people here (mostly indigenous) some migrant farm workers.
The ones the tourist do not go to see and the government would like to
pretend do not exist.
One of SeaChar's other current TLUD stove projects is working with a
homeless encampment in Seattle Wa. Nicklesville is a growing group of 250
desperate people, who our government is trying to pretend does not exist.
Thanks for all the great links.
Art Donnelly
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:00 PM, <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:
> Send Stoves mailing list submissions to
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> stoves-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: What is poor ? (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
> 2. Re: Marketing good quality stoves (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
> 3. Re: What is poor ? (Richard Stanley)
> 4. Re: Marketing good quality stoves (nari phaltan)
> 5. Re: What poor means? (Bruce Stahlberg)
> 6. Re: Stove costs (Anand Karve)
> 7. Re: Marketing good quality stoves (Andrew C. Parker)
> 8. Mbaula BLUD ignition videos (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 03:23:25 -0500
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] What is poor ?
> Message-ID: <043001cca826$d7ee15f0$87ca41d0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Richard
>
> I always appreciate your descriptions of how your initiative is spreading
> like a disease - infecting everyone with newly evolved strains and coming
> round again for second kick.
>
> In order to inoculate people against it one would need a pretty big
> subsidy.
>
> Just having fun...
> Press on
> Crispin
> ++++++
>
> Mwalimu Paul et al:
>
> If one defines poverty as not only on the simple basis of cash income, fine
> but if one really wants to dive in, then one has to define it as a
> condition
> of hopelessness and lack of opportunity or will to participate in life. But
> therin lies the quandry: Then those of us in the "west" may need a big
> mirror: Then maybe we all better look a lot more closely at industrialized
> society, not just the third world .
>
> Our own two cents on it over the past few decades, is that everyone has
> something unique to contribute. No one is an object to be pitied and
> "helped" unless the situation is sudden and catastrophic. It is not the
> material sign of wealth but that needs to be "targeted" first, as much as
> it
> is a more fundamental issue: The capacity for solutions often very unique
> ones, is usually there is you dig deep enough. It is the setting for the
> unleashing of natural human tendency for survival in just social
> circumstances that needs to be most addressed. it is as much or more of
> problem in the US part of the Ameicas today as it is in the third world.
>
> You don't want to approach it as working with someone as a potential
> recipient of your benifiscence, but as a potential participant in a
> process
> of shared discovery and contribution. This is not Mother Theresa stuff but
> rather jut plain pracitcal common sense: You do nto want to create a trail
> of dependence upon your efforts : Rather youd like to see it all take off
> on
> its own two feet eh ? If that all sounds a bit vacuous, then heres
> somethign more specific: Last week up in the Usambaras, or Tanzania, we
> reconnected with some core producer-trainer teams from amongst the
> Mkombozi,
> Likozi and Wema groups whom we have been in contact with since 2007. They
> all would nicely qualify as "poor". They make briquettes presses and
> provide
> training. Thye do all of these things bette than we can and differently
> than
> we originally taught them.
> They had devised new blends and strategies for disrtibution of briquettes
> and application in stoves, a novel divider to double the produciton in the
> new ratchet press we are developing with Steve Kitutu up in Arusha, etc
> etc. What a kick to learn what the fellow citisens have to contribute. No
> aid has given these groups beyond initial training and funds to construct
> their own building (It rains alot there).
>
> One can find similar innovation in the slums of Kangemi Kenya with such as
> the $5 buck press of Francis Oloo, or the "chewey" briquette of Zaugia and
> Marietta in Lushoto, or George Owino's clever adaptation of the side fed
> stove in rural Uganda. I come along with a bright idea about making sausage
> briquettes with the conventional mini- Bryant press and I will soon be back
> in contact with Mzee Senkenge in Doche village to see how he and the
> production team there has adapted the idea, to make it work better--or for
> that matter, rejected it as impractical.
>
> The next step is to find a way to insure that ideas like this get
> communicated fairly, with due reference to the sources-- something that
> needs to be taught to us back home as much as here it seems.
>
> Who is poor?
>
> Pressing on,
>
> Richard Stanley
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 03:29:28 -0500
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Marketing good quality stoves
> Message-ID: <043401cca827$b0b821f0$122865d0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dear Richard
>
>
>
> I heard a guy on the CBC radio yesterday say that in India he sees kids
> with
> no shoes but they have a cell phone. It is all about priorities. When the
> <$2-a-day briquette makers need to coordinate customers they will get one
> and send free SMS's. Jungle spam. Coming soon to a footpath near you.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
>
>
> PS Don't freeze. That wind off the Dar es Salaam glaciers can be deadly.
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20111121/8ee90dae/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:27:28 +0100
> From: Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] What is poor ?
> Message-ID: <84E1E810-9EFE-4E0C-86B4-A12042C40674 at legacyfound.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> from the frozen glacier of Dar es Salaam,
>
> The cell phone is becoming the tool for communciation here, big time.
> Everyone sends text messages very littel spokn com as it is far more
> expensive. In fact, one tell when one is getting a call locally because
> someone calls, then hangs up, leaving you to foot the bill of replying..
> There is group called Envya started by an ex peace corps turned silicone
> valley entrepreneur . Envaya is a way of linking the cell phone user
> (ubiquitous ) to the internet (still, not so ubiquitous) ---or accessable.
> There is very little "jungle path" to speak of anyway.. Its more a
> question of too much traffic if anything.
> But we-- in our recent infamous linguist-presidents word's---
> misunderestimate the power of work of mouth too.
>
> Brrr. so damn cold here !!!
> Richard
>
> On Nov 21, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>
> > Dear Richard
> >
> > I always appreciate your descriptions of how your initiative is spreading
> > like a disease - infecting everyone with newly evolved strains and coming
> > round again for second kick.
> >
> > In order to inoculate people against it one would need a pretty big
> subsidy.
> >
> > Just having fun...
> > Press on
> > Crispin
> > ++++++
> >
> > Mwalimu Paul et al:
> >
> > If one defines poverty as not only on the simple basis of cash income,
> fine
> > but if one really wants to dive in, then one has to define it as a
> condition
> > of hopelessness and lack of opportunity or will to participate in life.
> But
> > therin lies the quandry: Then those of us in the "west" may need a big
> > mirror: Then maybe we all better look a lot more closely at
> industrialized
> > society, not just the third world .
> >
> > Our own two cents on it over the past few decades, is that everyone has
> > something unique to contribute. No one is an object to be pitied and
> > "helped" unless the situation is sudden and catastrophic. It is not the
> > material sign of wealth but that needs to be "targeted" first, as much
> as it
> > is a more fundamental issue: The capacity for solutions often very unique
> > ones, is usually there is you dig deep enough. It is the setting for the
> > unleashing of natural human tendency for survival in just social
> > circumstances that needs to be most addressed. it is as much or more of
> > problem in the US part of the Ameicas today as it is in the third world.
> >
> > You don't want to approach it as working with someone as a potential
> > recipient of your benifiscence, but as a potential participant in a
> process
> > of shared discovery and contribution. This is not Mother Theresa stuff
> but
> > rather jut plain pracitcal common sense: You do nto want to create a
> trail
> > of dependence upon your efforts : Rather youd like to see it all take
> off on
> > its own two feet eh ? If that all sounds a bit vacuous, then heres
> > somethign more specific: Last week up in the Usambaras, or Tanzania, we
> > reconnected with some core producer-trainer teams from amongst the
> Mkombozi,
> > Likozi and Wema groups whom we have been in contact with since 2007. They
> > all would nicely qualify as "poor". They make briquettes presses and
> provide
> > training. Thye do all of these things bette than we can and differently
> than
> > we originally taught them.
> > They had devised new blends and strategies for disrtibution of
> briquettes
> > and application in stoves, a novel divider to double the produciton in
> the
> > new ratchet press we are developing with Steve Kitutu up in Arusha, etc
> > etc. What a kick to learn what the fellow citisens have to contribute. No
> > aid has given these groups beyond initial training and funds to construct
> > their own building (It rains alot there).
> >
> > One can find similar innovation in the slums of Kangemi Kenya with such
> as
> > the $5 buck press of Francis Oloo, or the "chewey" briquette of Zaugia
> and
> > Marietta in Lushoto, or George Owino's clever adaptation of the side fed
> > stove in rural Uganda. I come along with a bright idea about making
> sausage
> > briquettes with the conventional mini- Bryant press and I will soon be
> back
> > in contact with Mzee Senkenge in Doche village to see how he and the
> > production team there has adapted the idea, to make it work better--or
> for
> > that matter, rejected it as impractical.
> >
> > The next step is to find a way to insure that ideas like this get
> > communicated fairly, with due reference to the sources-- something that
> > needs to be taught to us back home as much as here it seems.
> >
> > Who is poor?
> >
> > Pressing on,
> >
> > Richard Stanley
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:02:48 +0530
> From: nari phaltan <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Marketing good quality stoves
> Message-ID:
> <CAGeG2tD9PXaq84VcsPiT-ZrKx1nXf-Q-wmUCOA=sg8gsF--F6Q at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> *This might help. *
>
> http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/25/more_than_1_billion_people_are_hungry_in_the_world
>
> Cheers. Anil K Rajvanshi
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Richard****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > I heard a guy on the CBC radio yesterday say that in India he sees kids
> > with no shoes but they have a cell phone. It is all about priorities.
> When
> > the <$2-a-day briquette makers need to coordinate customers they will get
> > one and send free SMS?s. Jungle spam. Coming soon to a footpath near
> you.*
> > ***
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Regards****
> >
> > Crispin****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > PS Don?t freeze. That wind off the Dar es Salaam glaciers can be
> deadly.**
> > **
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
> Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road
> P.O.Box 44
> Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India
> Ph:91-2166-222396/220945
> e-mail:nariphaltan at gmail.com
> anilrajvanshi at gmail.com
>
> http://www.nariphaltan.org
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20111121/2de77132/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:54:21 -0600
> From: Bruce Stahlberg <bruce at affordableenergysolutions.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] What poor means?
> Message-ID:
> <CAKzG=53gucRwP1XOGAKXQAS13w-f94E8BVCfUpu=A=3dTuv0cA at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Stovers of all kinds from all types of organizations and countries can and
> should collaborate and learn from each other. It is the brilliance behind
> the bioenergylists.org web site.
>
> I find it refreshing that a private enterprise would make a high quality
> product that citizens of countries where energy is (too) cheap and
> plentiful, then sell it at a profit that compensates him or her for the
> initiative.
>
> I am not the expert in the stove field and don't pretend to have the
> experience that others on this list do. What I do know from experience is
> that Dean is right. Making the technology is the easy part and getting a
> wide, diverse, human population to change their cooking habits has a
> multitude of barriers. There is not one formula that will work across this
> planet.
>
> Even the stoves that are subsidized to make them affordable need to be able
> to make a profit or the project will fail. Making money is not a bad thing
> if your product is something that can contribute to the common good.
>
> Thanks to everyone for sharing their information on this site. It helps
> even those of us who are on the sidelines.
>
> Bruce
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Fireside Hearth <
> firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Maybe some of us can "collaborate" once we are no longer worried about
> > feeding our children.............we the 99% are happy to share our
> > expertise, but we also need to eat...sorry!
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:44:54 +0700
> >
> > From: paul.olivier at esrla.com
> > To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] What poor means?
> >
> > Phil,
> >
> > It is possible to build cook stoves with doing damage to children and the
> > environment.
> > I work with an organization in Vietnam dedicated to cleaner production
> > techniques.
> > Your concerns here are not a problem.
> > But I would want to collaborate with experts who do not need to make
> money
> > through the sale of cook stoves.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Paul
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 6:34 AM, Fireside Hearth <
> > firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 06:06:42 +0700
> > From: paul.olivier at esrla.com
> >
> > To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] What poor means?
> >
> > I suggest:
> >
> > 1. that we collaborate in coming up with some of the best designs of
> > cook stoves for particular forms of biomass;
> > 2. that we look for countries uniquely positioned to fabricate at the
> > most competitive prices; While not tolerating child slave labor or
> > environmental rape
> > 3. that we use the highest quality materials in our fabrication;
> > 4. that we employ some of the most advanced mass production
> techniques;Only if there are green in all ways
> > 5. that we buy in large quantities to further reduce price;
> > 6. that we sell at cost, or perhaps below cost, to the poor;
> > 7. that we operate with total transparency in making known our
> > fabrication costs;
> > 8. that we ask the rich to voluntarily pay more to subsidize the sale
> > to the poor.
> >
> > The effort to provide good cook stoves does not have to be a money-making
> > endeavor. Sorry, but I don't believe that there is not a way to do both.
> > My families future depends
> > on making money through this. We also wish to support our failing schools
> > with this money.
> > It could easily become a world-wide collaborative effort involving many
> > people on this stove list. YES!
> >
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Paul Olivier
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:13 AM, Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Phil,
> >
> > I think that if we factor in the ill health and climate change caused by
> > incomplete combustion of biomass, society as a whole saves money by
> > subsidizing the 50% fuel reduction and 90% emission reduction cooking
> > stove. However, as Bryan Wilson points out in his presentations, the
> bottom
> > of the pyramid consumer is not motivated to pay for these improvements.
> >
> > My hope is that someone will be smart enough and stubborn enough to
> > manufacture a market driven stove that meets the 50% and 90% level of
> > performance. And, the necessary push to accomplish this difficult task
> > would be very much assisted by a firm order for 1 million stoves from
> some
> > motivated funder who also locates and secures the distribution network.
> >
> > Making the 50% and 90% stove is the relatively easy part. I would guess
> > that the commercial distribution side is 10 times harder. I can imagine
> > distributing 100 million stoves by selling at the market price to cooks
> who
> > then use the stoves and the funder makes the money back on the carbon
> > credits.
> >
> > I hear that Envirofit is doing something along these lines?
> >
> > All Best,
> >
> > Dean
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Phil Hughes <nicafyl at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The $2/day number can clearly mean very different things in different
> > places. I live in rural Nicaragua and can offer some data that at least
> > fits here. And here is a place where fuel-efficient stoves really are
> > needed.
> >
> > For those with work, $2/day is the going wage. There are lots of people
> > who seldom work so $2/day/family in this area as far as cash income is
> > pretty high. That said, most people have enough land to grow much of what
> > they eat and few have any debts.
> >
> > The cash gets spent on batteries for radios, cooking oil, salt, sugar,
> > rice and minimally on clothing. That's really about it. But, having no
> > savings and living day-to-day on what they have is typical. That is, if
> > they had a good week they might buy batteries for the radio but, if not,
> > just not listen to it.
> >
> > Health care and education are free so they are non-issues (for pretty low
> > quality for each). That pretty well defines rural life here.
> >
> > Telling someone they can reduce fuel consumption by 50%, get rid of smoke
> > in the house and such is not going to compute if an investment is needed.
> > They will walk farther to cut wood for cooking and pretend the smoke is a
> > non-issue. Thus, these people are unlikely to get excited about
> "something
> > better" if an investment is needed.
> >
> > What will work is if they can go to a workshop showing them how to make a
> > stove using mud and something that is available as scrap or given to
> them.
> > Beyond that, good luck.
> >
> > --
> > Phil Hughes
> > nicafyl at gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul A. Olivier PhD
> > 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
> > Dalat
> > Vietnam
> >
> > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> > Skype address: Xpolivier
> > http://www.esrla.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to
> > Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List
> > Settings use the web page
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.orgformore Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul A. Olivier PhD
> > 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
> > Dalat
> > Vietnam
> >
> > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> > Skype address: Xpolivier
> > http://www.esrla.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________ Stoves mailing list to
> > Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List
> > Settings use the web page
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.orgformore Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20111120/da1b0b4e/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 00:23:08 +0800
> From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stove costs
> Message-ID:
> <CACPy7Sfdqzod1cPRxBHhbjj__7RATX-9+bH-NKWpWKTLqRrPAw at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Dear Jan,
> In the part of India where I live, a person earning US$ 2 per day
> would not be considered all that poor. He would not be able to support
> a family on that earning but if he were leading a bachelor's life in a
> village, he can live comfortably on that money. The field assistants
> in our own institute earn a salary of about US$60 per month. They are
> farmers' sons. So they have a roof on their heads and get enough to
> eat. The salary that they earn is spent on flashy clothing, cinema, a
> mobile phone etc. It is the exchange rate between the Indian Rupee
> and the US$ that makes us so poor in the eyes of the world. I myself,
> who headed the Institute till my retirement last month, earned a
> monthly salary of only US$350, and yet I belonged to the richest 3% of
> the country (that is the percentage of people who pay income tax).
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:40 AM, Jan Bianchi <janbianchi at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > Dear A.D.
> >
> > The questions about what the reference to $2 a day earning capacity
> really
> > means is totally fair.
> >
> > But if you were asking the question I was asking, what can people who are
> > poor in a country that may itself be poor, or at least parts of it,
> afford
> > to pay for a stove, I'm curious how you would describe them?
> >
> > So far the answers that I have seen that suggest they can save no more
> than
> > 20% of their daily income for about 10 days seems grounded in research.
> >
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Anand
> Karve
> > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 8:04 PM
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stove costs
> >
> > Dear Jan,
> > I keep hearing about the people earning less than US$2 per day. In a
> > lot of cases the income is shown to be low in statistics generated by
> > the Government of that particular country. Even a landless labourer in
> > a village in India would have some hens and a goat (or ducks and a
> > pig), the income from which never enters the Government statistics.
> > Another fact of life is that people's priorities differ from ours.
> > Some of us feel that the poor should have a clean latrine and a clean
> > kitchen, but the poor themselves often consider a cellphones in their
> > pocket and a t.v. in the house to be more important. Also the rate of
> > conversion of a dollar into the local currency is often manipulated by
> > the Government. 2 Dollars in a poor country has a relatively high
> > buying power in that country than in the US.
> > Yours
> > A.D.Karve
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 5:38 AM, Jan Bianchi <janbianchi at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >> Do any of you know of a list that compares different clean burning cook
> >> stoves not only by fuel type, efficiency and emissions, but also by
> price
> >> and the presence or lack thereof of subsidy?? I don?t see the latter
> >> information on most websites that describe different stoves.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If there isn?t such a list, maybe we could work to put together one by
> > each
> >> of you sending a link that describes a stove and stating the price they
> > are
> >> currently being sold for in local communities, together with whether
> there
> >> is a subsidy and if so the amount?? I?d be happy to work with Erin to
> put
> >> together such a list from your answers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> For people living on $2 a day or less, what for example would be
> > considered
> >> a low cost stove? ?Middling?? High?
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Stoves mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> > .org
> >>
> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ***
> > Dr. A.D. Karve
> > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
> (ARTI)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> > .org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:25:15 -0700
> From: "Andrew C. Parker" <acparker at xmission.com>
> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Marketing good quality stoves
> Message-ID: <op.v5a30dmluoov7l at user-8ezctxe031>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> No need for shipping. Used car salesmen are a personality type that
> exists worldwide. They are sometimes called politicians.
>
> Seriously though, a good product is worthless without a good salesman. A
> crappy product can make you a millionaire if you have a good salesman.
>
>
> Andrew Parker
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:54:16 -0700, Richard Stanley
> <rstanley at legacyfound.org> wrote:
>
> > Just as a non segway...I'd love to see what would happen if we shipped a
> > plane load of used car salesmen to the developing nations to sell
> > stoves: "Now ladies and gentlemen what would it take to get you behind
> > our new TLUDPEKOPEROCKETVESTO model??"
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 12:52:40 -0500
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] Mbaula BLUD ignition videos
> Message-ID: <04be01cca876$5e0f4c90$1a2de5b0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r"
>
> Dear Friends
>
>
>
> If you want to see what the baseline stove emissions in the
> Johannesburg/Pretoria area look like, and why we at the SeTAR Centre are
> working on this as a priority. The fuel is Witbank D (a bituminous high-ash
> coal) which is pretty easy to ignite.
>
>
>
> See:
>
> http://youtu.be/heNBN9BkJME
>
>
>
> then
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nxY3GwbNZBg>
> &v=nxY3GwbNZBg
>
>
>
> The fuel responds well to TLUD ignition (?88% reduction in PM) though it
> takes longer to get to a no-smoke stage. Cooking can however be started
> sooner than when using a BLUD ignition. After the coal is coked, people
> take
> the burning device inside their homes. At that stage it produces nearly no
> PM at all - extremely low - but quite a lot of CO. The CO level varies
> greatly based on how the holes are patterned.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20111121/24f15584/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 15, Issue 34
> **************************************
>
--
"SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20111121/d8d5bc3b/attachment.html>
More information about the Stoves
mailing list