[Stoves] High mass space heating options Re: Rocket Stove for the PLACE
Fireside Hearth
firesidehearthvashon at hotmail.com
Mon Oct 10 12:57:55 CDT 2011
Hello all,
It is in my limited understanding that "bio char" gives a home to microbial organisms which in turn bring much needed "natural fertilizers" to ones garden, is this true? From the reading I have done I can not think of any way of creating the char without sustaining other losses, many of which can be seen in pictures of destructive practices, slash burns, air pollution, and the ridiculous end cost of the process on our environment.
From the text below I have the gut response of the following analogy. The race car driver and the Granny. Mario Andretti rapidly goes from the gas pedal to the brake pedal and back to get every ounce of performance he can from his machine.....screw economy. The Granny acts as if there is an egg shell between her foot and the pedal which she wants to keep safe at all cost. Who gets the best fuel economy.......surely not Mario. In this thinking I bring up the "Russian fireplace", The oldest and most widely used High Mass heater I have known in my 26 years. They are typically loaded up with 80 lbs of fuel and burned off one or two times per day. Thats up to 160 pounds every 24 hours, and no char is left. I believe that the common EPA certified wood stove can provide just as much "useable" heat to ones home with allot less fuel, and no char is left.
So, I am asking out loud.......are we better off selecting the heat source that gets more for our waning resources, and maybe asking if there is another medium for giving a home to these microbial critters other than just the "char". What is it about the char that is beneficial? Does the ash from the fire also allow for the "housing" process? Can we learn to utilize this process in a way that does not cost mother earth an arm and a leg? If this process really works as well as proponents claim, then there must also be an ecologically intelligent way to create a medium for housing these life giving microbes.
Comments?
Roger.
From: chinckley at efwinslow.com
To: rongretlarson at comcast.net; stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org; english at kingston.net
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 10:39:36 -0400
CC: jotemahern at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Stoves] High mass space heating options Re: Rocket Stove for the PLACE
That is precisely the reason I am thinking about
combining these two concepts; biomass/char and mass absorption and transmission.
I want to produce char as a co-product of the heating cycle, cooking will also
be a secondary consideration.
My desire is to find a design that will benefit
and further enhance each of these concepts. I am not particularly
enamored with the idea of continuous "fire" tending, I do like the notion
of building one or two very hot, short duration fires and then walking away to
have the mass regulate the heating needs of the space.
As I said above creating biochar in this
process is equally important to my purposes. I really hate the idea and throwing
off the "waste" heat from the char production, as I also do not like the
idea of burning up the char in a continuously fed heating appliance. It seems to
me that it may be possible to doubly enhance the efficiencies of each of the
these two processes by combining them.
Does this seem desirable to any others
here?
Chas, pronounced Chaz
If this is going to become a busy discussion I will
need to set up a different email acct for it, this is my studio email and it
gets enough activity on it's own. Is this a discussion that should be moved to a
list server?
----- Original Message -----
From:
rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves ; Alex English
Cc: chinckley at efwinslow.com ; Jote Mahern
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 11:29
PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] High mass space
heating options Re: Rocket Stove for the PLACE
Alex: I
believe the most appropriate answer to your final question below ("What do
you see as the advantages of combining these two approaches?") is one you
gave yourself: ("...a desire for
char ...").
The beauty of high mass heaters is that
they mesh well with a batch process - the main (only?) drawback of char-making
stoves.
Ron
From: "Alex English" <english at kingston.net>
To:
"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Cc:
chinckley at efwinslow.com,
"Jote Mahern" <jotemahern at gmail.com>
Sent:
Saturday, October 8, 2011 8:49:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] High
mass space heating options Re: Rocket Stove for the PLACE
Paul,
The
TLUD configuration has it's advantages and disadvantages, like any
system.
One advantage is it's steady state energy release. High mass
heaters
strive for a similar result. It seems a bit redundant to pair
the two.
Perhaps it depends on other considerations like a desire for
char or an
available particulate fuel supply.
There are some folks doing fine work
at the Masonry Heater Association.
http://mha-net.org/
They have done a
lot on emissions, efficiency and durability.
They have looked into Down
feed rocket configurations.
I'm not sure if they have quantified losses
between firings, or seasonal
efficiency.
Its a simple concept with
lots of technical details.
What do you see as the advantages of
combining these two approaches?
Alex
On 10/7/2011 10:02
AM, Paul S. Anderson wrote:
> Dear Jote and all,
>
> Your
problem (opportunity) is about space heating. And you seem to want
>
biomass rather than fossil or other heat sources. So you should
consider
> all heat-transfer options with biomass, not just latch onto
Rocket or
> some other technology that makes heat.
>
> For
the climate of the Los Angeles area, why not consider a high-mass
>
stove? It gets hot and then radiates heat for a long time.
>
> A
new friend of mine in Massachusetts, Chas (prononced as in Jazz)
>
Hinckley has a design for a high mass heater and we are discussing a
>
moderately large TLUD combustor to provide the heat.
>
> We are
looking for other people who might be specifically interested in
> this
high mass heating option with a TLUD heat source.
>
> If anyone is
interested, please get in touch with me and Chas to have
> some off-list
discussions. (Chas is not subscribed to the Stoves Listserv.)
>
>
Yes, you can put a Rocket burner into a high mass device, but I do not
>
deal with that.
>
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Known to some
as: Dr. TLUD Doc Professor
> Phone (USA): 309-452-7072 SKYPE: paultlud
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>
www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf (Best
ref.)
>
>
> Quoting Jote Mahern
<jotemahern at gmail.com>:
>
>> Hello
All,
>>
>> My name is Jote and I am looking for some
guidance on the subject of
>> building a rocket stove to heat an
industrial space near 64th and San
>> Pablo.
>> This space
is home to the PLACE for sustainable living (People Linking
>>
Art
>> Community and Ecology). We are a nonprofit working as a
community
>> resiliency laboratory and business incubator. We opened
in May. It is
>> starting to get pretty cool inside. Any help/advice
is appreciated. I am
>> heading up the project and have experience
with cob and am excited to
>> put it
>> to good
use.
>>
>> I am hoping to locate plans and someone who is
willing to go over them
>> with
>> me.
>> If anyone
is interested in joining the work party for the build out
>> that
is
>> definitely welcome as well.
>>
>> Hope to
hear from you soon!
>>
>
>
>
>
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