[Stoves] Powering a TLUD Fan

Thu Aug 30 17:14:01 CDT 2012

Don't know, just thought of that as a way to not use electric power.

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>wrote:

> Josh,
>
> Could a hand-crank or foot treadle system be operated at a village level?
> It might be too expensive for a household.
> Do you know of companies that make them?
>
> Paul Olivier
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:59 PM, Josh Kearns <
> yeah.yeah.right.on at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What about a mechanical hand-crank or foot-treadle system with a
>> flywheel? Get 'er goin and then every few min. a couple pumps on the crank
>> to keep the flywheel up to the desired speed.
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Phil Hughes <nicafyl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Let me toss in a few more factoids.
>>> http://www.batteryspace.com/li-ioncylindricalcellseries.aspx will give
>>> you a decent sample of the common LiION cells. The most common size in
>>> laptop batteries is the 18650 which is typically from 2.2 to 2.78Ah. When
>>> you see a laptop with a higher capacity battery it is typically cells in
>>> series-parallel. For example, a 6-cell battery is generally two strings of
>>> three 18650 cells in parallel.
>>>
>>> The explosing fist is real. The good news is that there are very
>>> inexpensive chips designed to charge these cells. You will find one (for a
>>> single cell) in all cellular phones. They will deal with maximum voltage
>>> and maximum charge current. They are also low drop-out as a typical use is
>>> to output 4.2V from a USB (5V) supply.
>>>
>>> In a typical laptop, you find other chips (generally more than just a
>>> single component) to charge the "almost 12V" string of LiIon cells from the
>>> typical 16 to 20V AC adapter. The disadvantage here is that you need to
>>> monitor the voltages of each cell in the string. Not complicated but that
>>> is what makes the 12V solution potentially more expensive than the 3.7V one.
>>>
>>> A 5V fan is an interesting possibility. First, if may operate fast
>>> enough from say 3.5V so a single LiIon cell would handle it. If not, a
>>> flyback converter to step up 3.7 to 5V would be cheap and high efficiency
>>> (because most of the power comes directly from the battery rather than
>>> needing to be "converted").
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Frans Peeters <peetersfrans at telenet.be>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Phil,
>>>>
>>>> 3x LiION  =3,7Vx3=11,1V  Charger needs 4,2x3=12,6 maximum or EXPLOSION
>>>> RISK
>>>> 2W motor at 12V-------->0,1666 A
>>>> 8h xO,166A =1,8Ah
>>>> Laptop cells are 3,6 Ah and more
>>>> Sun cell 15,6V---------> 12,6 V +3V for charging  regulator LM317
>>>>
>>>> PC  uP fans exist at 5V x0,2A=1W you could power with 2 cells;
>>>> Also a dual fan of 2x 1W
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Frans
>>>>
>>>> I see Paul Oliver's work to be excellent and appreciate how a variable
>>>> speed
>>>> fan can offer excellent control over TLUD operation. My reservation is
>>>> that
>>>> there are many places where even the small power requirement (Paul says
>>>> 1-2
>>>> watts) just isn't available. Lots of people here in Nicaragua are
>>>> totally
>>>> off-grid and don't have reasonable access to a way to charge a battery.
>>>> So,
>>>> I am been thinking about options. Being, among other things, an
>>>> electronics
>>>> geek, here is what I have been thinking about.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Running the TLUD 8 hours a day at "average" fan speed means 12 watts per
>>>> day. At 12 volts that's one ampere hour. I have been thinking about a
>>>> couple
>>>> of approaches. One is "higher tech" but may be a better solution at an
>>>> equivalent or lower cost. In both cases I am just thinking of a
>>>> photovoltaic
>>>> panel to charge the battery. The difference is the battery voltage.
>>>>
>>>> Small PV panels are pretty common on the surplus market. For example,
>>>> Electronic Gold Mine (http://www.goldmine-elec.com/) offers an
>>>> assortment.
>>>> The specifications vary from 7 to 35 volts open circuit with output
>>>> power in
>>>> the range of 1-3 watts. Prices are from $4.50 to $15. As this is
>>>> quantity
>>>> one retail price information, it is likely the could be found at
>>>> significantly lower costs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As any PV-based system will need some sort of charge controller for the
>>>> battery and what PV cells (in particular, what voltage) will be
>>>> available at
>>>> the best price point, I am thinking that using a single-cell Lithium Ion
>>>> battery (3.7 volts nominal) would make the most sense. Units with a
>>>> capacity
>>>> of 2.2 ampere hours and more are commonly used in laptop computers. They
>>>> offer reasonable life, low cost and the possibility of finding them on
>>>> the
>>>> surplus market. The cells can be paralleled if higher capacity is
>>>> needed.
>>>>
>>>> A switching "up-converter" would be needed to supply the 12 volts
>>>> needed for
>>>> the fan. The speed control could be incorporated into the up converter
>>>> which
>>>> would reduce the cost and increase the efficiency.
>>>>
>>>> The alternative would be to use a more or less 12 volt battery (three
>>>> Li-Ion
>>>> cells in series) so that the up-converter could be eliminated. My
>>>> initial
>>>> guess is that the reduced electronics cost would not be as much as the
>>>> increased battery cost but it is a viable alternative as long as higher
>>>> voltage surplus PV panels are available.
>>>>
>>>> While this sounds like a lot of electronics, this is all very common
>>>> stuff
>>>> that you find in, for example, cellular phones. There is some design
>>>> work
>>>> needed but the actual component costs will be very low.
>>>>
>>>> Comments?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Phil Hughes
>>>> nicafyl at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Phil Hughes
>>> nicafyl at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Josh Kearns
>> PhD Candidate
>> Environmental Engineering
>> Engineering for Developing Communities
>> University of Colorado-Boulder
>>
>> Director of Science
>> Aqueous Solutions
>> www.aqsolutions.org
>>
>> Mobile: 720 989 3959
>> Skype: joshkearns
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/
>
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>

-- 
Josh Kearns
PhD Candidate
Environmental Engineering
Engineering for Developing Communities
University of Colorado-Boulder

Director of Science
Aqueous Solutions
www.aqsolutions.org

Mobile: 720 989 3959
Skype: joshkearns
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