[Stoves] Why TLUDs are not mass produced

[Josh Kearns]

I'll add a scenario where I've found the home made tin can TLUD to be very
useful:

Operated in forced draft mode I've been consistently able to generate
biochar with half the sorption capacity of commercial activated carbon.
When giving talks in University classes, at academic seminars, to potential
funders, etc., I like to bring my well-worn McLaughlin Toucan and stress
that "I made this thing using a pair of tin snips out of crap I got out of
a dumpster, and it makes char half as good as high-grade GAC."

That usually has a cool dramatic effect on the audience. One time I won
$500 at a water treatment engineers' conference!

JK



On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> It's taking a while but mass production and distribution of clean,
> affordable cook stoves , I think, is just around the corner. The support
> from the PCIA (!!), DOE, USAID, Global Alliance, GIZ, EPA, etc. has
> vitalized stoves and in the next year or two I would be surprised if the
> new TLUDs, Fan Stoves, Chimney Stoves, Natural Draft Stoves were not
> speeding off production lines into stores.
>
> The Global Alliance is working very hard on multiple fronts to assist the
> growth of stoves worldwide. Let's all go to their Forum in Cambodia and
> push together towards success.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Josh Kearns <yeah.yeah.right.on at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> I'd second the perspectives offered by Paul O. People in "developing
>> communities" are usually, in my experience, really busy. If you can make a
>> tin can stove by hand for very cheap, that's great, but it will break down
>> pretty quickly with daily use. Poor people ought to have well designed,
>> durable stoves to cook on. Getting the production economies of scale right,
>> along with appropriate financing mechanisms, could bring this about.
>>
>> Mobile phones are sophisticated little devices but are now fairly
>> widespread, along with roadside repair shops (at least where I have worked
>> in SE Asia). I'm sure others have made this analogy and thought about how
>> it might (or might) not apply to stoves and other appropriate/sustainable
>> technologies.
>>
>> JK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Paal,
>>>
>>> Try to make a tin can by hand. This is terribly inefficient.
>>> Tin cans are best made by machines (mass production).
>>> There are many parts to my gasifier that require enormous time to make
>>> by hand.
>>> Like the analogy with the tin can, this too is terribly inefficient.
>>> If we need to provide work to poor people, we might try to figure out
>>> more productive things for them to do.
>>> The TLUD parts that I am proposing are not made in China, but here in
>>> Vietnam where I live.
>>>
>>> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Jpegs/JP6/150%20Gasifier%20Parts.pdf
>>> The factory in Vietnam has accepted to make parts virtually at cost and
>>> and I do not mark-up anything.
>>> Also I bear fully the substantial cost of making the molds and jigs
>>> needed for mass production.
>>> My profit in all of this is totally zero. So it's not about making me or
>>> anyone else rich.
>>> Without mass-production the cost of many TLUD parts doubles and even
>>> triples.
>>> If costs are inflated because I insist that things be made one at a time
>>> by hand in order to provide employment,
>>>  then a lot of poor people will not be able to afford the gasifiers that
>>> are so badly needed.
>>>
>>> But once parts are mass-produced, I see a place for small workshops to
>>> assemble parts.
>>> If a small workshop should somehow manage to make parts more cheaply
>>> than the mass-produced parts, I gladly encourage them to so so.
>>> In fact I will even supply drawings. There is nothing proprietary in
>>> what I do with gasifiers.
>>>
>>> For example, I recently gave drawings to Dr. Reg Preston,
>>>  and he in turn passed them on to NGOs in several countries in South
>>> America.
>>> If these NGOs need parts, I will help them out at cost.
>>>
>>> Many thanks.
>>> Paul Olivier
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Paal Wendelbo <paaw at online.no> wrote:
>>>
>>>>   Dear Paul Oliver
>>>>
>>>> I am not talking about gas-welding, but abut a simple TLUDenergy-unit
>>>> made by local tinsmiths with the tools they might have. If there is a
>>>> question about huge quantities you can have pre-stamped and cut, easy to
>>>> put together by local tinsmiths.  Mass-production of cheap stoves from
>>>> China will not solve the problems of unemployment in developing countries.
>>>> You need more poor people to buy cheap products to keep few producers still
>>>> rich.
>>>>
>>>> Paal W
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>>> Dalat
>>> Vietnam
>>>
>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Josh Kearns
>> PhD Candidate
>> Environmental Engineering
>> Engineering for Developing Communities
>> University of Colorado-Boulder
>>
>> Director of Science
>> Aqueous Solutions
>> www.aqsolutions.org
>>
>> Mobile: 720 989 3959
>> Skype: joshkearns
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
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>
>


-- 
Josh Kearns
PhD Candidate
Environmental Engineering
Engineering for Developing Communities
University of Colorado-Boulder

Director of Science
Aqueous Solutions
www.aqsolutions.org

Mobile: 720 989 3959
Skype: joshkearns
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