[Stoves] fuelwood costs in Bangladesh

Steven Wilson swilson61 at hotmail.com
Sun Sep 2 06:13:09 CDT 2012


I'm not sure what the fuel wood cost is in the cities of Bangladesh, but if this is at all helpful to you, in Kolkata (where I'm working - not too far across the India/Bangladesh border) fuel wood is sold for INR 5 - 7 / kg, depending on the wood type (wastewood from carpentry shops / recycled door frames etc / sticks from trees felled in the region).
  > From: stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 25, Issue 1
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 11:01:55 -0700
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Plastic-powered plane to fly from Sydney to London
>       (Carefreeland at aol.com)
>    2. Re: Powering a TLUD Fan (ajheggie at gmail.com)
>    3. Re: Powering a TLUD Fan (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
>    4. Re: Kampala briquetting (Nolbert Muhumuza)
>    5. Re: Powering a TLUD Fan (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
>    6. fuelwood costs in Bangladesh (Donee Alexander)
>    7. Re: Powering a TLUD Fan (Phil Hughes)
>    8. Public Comment Period: Measuring Global Alliance progress
>       (Ranyee Chiang)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:40:03 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Carefreeland at aol.com
> To: xavier at praktidesign.com, stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org,
> 	gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Plastic-powered plane to fly from Sydney to
> 	London
> Message-ID: <2fd15.53208db5.3d72cf83 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
>  
> In a message dated 8/30/2012 3:45:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
> xvr.brandao at gmail.com writes:
>  
> DD: Dan Dimiduk replies 
>  
> DD:   Stovers, and Gasification people, 
>  
>  This topic is better suited for the gasification list if someone  wants to 
> forward it to that. I tried to do it but it may bounce.  
> My first thoughts on this subject of plastic to  fuel, go to the huge mass 
> of floating plastic out in the Pacific Ocean.  I  wish someone would finance 
> building a large floating platform on some old ocean  going barges and 
> construct a refinery. The raw material is free in international  waters and 
> probably would cost less than pumping, shipping and then refining  conventional 
> crude oil. The finished synthetic petroleum distillate products can  be 
> shipped and sold at a premium to any developed island nearby, 
>     The reserve of raw plastic in the Pacific Ocean  would even be a 
> renewable resource as more plastic is constantly being dumped  and washed into the 
> pacific basin. This would even be a great project for one of  the major oil 
> companies to invest in. Probably among the largest untapped oil  reserves 
> in the world, Centrally located to pacific rim markets. The only place  you 
> can produce oil and clean up the planet in a big way at the same time. 
>     Comments? 
>     
>         Dan Dimiduk 
> 
>  
>  
> 
> Sorry, I sent a message without text, here is the  link: 
> _http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2200029/plasticpowered-plane-to-fly-fr
> om-london-to-sydney?wt.mc_ev=click&WT.tsrc=Email&utm_term=&utm_content=Plast
> ic-powered%20plane%20to%20fly%20from%20Sydney%20to%20London&utm_campaign=Bus
> inessGreen%20Weekly%20Newsletter%20220812&utm_source=Business%20Green%20Week
> ly&utm_medium=Email_ 
> (http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2200029/plasticpowered-plane-to-fly-from-london-to-sydney?wt.mc_ev=click&WT.tsrc=Email&utm_te
> rm=&utm_content=Plastic-powered%20plane%20to%20fly%20from%20Sydney%20to%20Lo
> ndon&utm_campaign=BusinessGreen%20Weekly%20Newsletter%20220812&utm_source=Bu
> siness%20Green%20Weekly&utm_medium=Email)    
> Incredible, cannot help but think about the DeLorean from  the movie Back 
> to the Future, powered by waste. 
> One day, we also might have stoves running on plastic. Oh  wait, it already 
> exists :) 
> -- 
> Xavier  Brandao 
> Prakti Design  Lab 
> _www.PraktiDesign.com_ (http://www.praktidesign.com/) 
> 
> 
>  
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2012 13:28:24 +0100
> From: ajheggie at gmail.com
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> 	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Powering a TLUD Fan
> Message-ID: <jqt348tmk8okbvuh1jf7n16d7sj5mlhrum at 4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 04:54:18 +0700, Paul Olivier wrote:
> 
> >The second is the pressure resistance of the fan (40x40x28mm).
> >For a gasifier of a 150 mm diameter, the pressure resistance has to be at
> >least 0.87 InAq.
> 
> InAq being inches of water gauge above atmospheric? If so this is
> about 250 Pascal, so 1 kg of dry biomass burned per hour at
> stoichiometric air for complete gasification should be around 1m3 of
> air, the 5m3 of air needed for secondary combustion would not need to
> pass through the bed and as Crispin has said the offgas can entrain
> the secondary air, though this is work it probably isn't much compared
> with the resistance of the fuel bed. Rice husks have a high ash
> content so I'm guessing its the ash that is serving to increase
> resistance by blocking pores between the husks.
> 
> Does the same happen with other fuels previously mentioned?
> 
> 1m3 of cold air per hour is about 1/3 of a litre per second. As power
> is force time distance and pressure and volume have terms for distance
> that cancel out then power is pressure time volume per second in SI
> units.
> 
> 250 Pascal times 0.0003 seems to be 0.075W so there seems to be a fair
> loss of conversion efficiency in the system somewhere, fans should be
> about 70% efficient but as things get small they tend to get more
> lossy. Or are my calculations wrong? 
> 
> Axial fans are particularly good at thrashing air into heat with no
> useful work as they stall, they are good at moving large volumes with
> little drop in pressure across them, laptop fans seem to be better as
> they tend to be centrifugal ones that push air along narrow ducts.
> 
> AJH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 11:17:19 -0400
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
> 	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Powering a TLUD Fan
> Message-ID: <0de301cd8854$eb2c45b0$c184d110$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Dear Andrew
> 
> First I am impressed with your power calculation and second, I agree with
> your conclusion.
> 
> >Axial fans are particularly good at thrashing air into heat with no useful
> work as they stall, they are good at moving large volumes with little drop
> in pressure across them, laptop fans seem to be better as they tend to be
> centrifugal ones that push air along narrow ducts.
> 
> Where the flow resistance is worth checking out. As Paul Anderson has been
> suggesting for some time, the flow resistance can be reduced by putting a
> screen of sorts under the whole fuel bed because the flow resistance may be
> where the air enters the space under the fuel.
> 
> Having been wrong several times about how much flow resistance there would
> be offered be consolidation ash, I think it may not be the ash. It is
> surprising how much air will move through ash.
> 
> I offer in support three things: downdraft coal ash, John Davies' coal
> stove, and the structure of rice hull that may rather keep gaps open. The
> downdraft stove known as BLDD6 and (5 actually) depends on air getting
> through the coal ash even though it is stacked quite thickly in the
> combustion chamber. I was surprised how much air can easily pass through
> unhindered.
> 
> John Davies has quite a tall pile of small coal that is top lit, then after
> reaching the bottom, the coke burns upwards with the ash underneath. All the
> primary air has to pass through the ash to reach the coke and it works quite
> well. In this case the unburned coke is sitting on top, compressing the ash
> at that critical time.
> 
> The third is that of rice hull which as you point out, has a lot of silica
> structure to it. This should prop open airways better than coal ash. For
> these reasons I think the resistance is either where the air enters the fuel
> store (later, the combustion chamber) or the exit which seem less likely.
> 
> In contra to the last point, the pressure requirement rises with time. If it
> is an ait entry point issue, there should be a sudden rise in the need for
> air pressure as the fuel over that point is pyrolysed. If the stove was
> operated on a sale, the relatively sudden change in the mass loss rate
> (which is the burn rate) would indicate the point during the burn that the
> air is choked (just plot the mass on a chart and look for a change in
> slope).
> 
> There should be a distinct deflection of that line when the burn goes from
> pyrolysing to char burning. An excellent example of this is what is now the
> Oorja Stove from India. The change in the mass burn rate is so clearly
> visible that it is possible to assign a different heat content per g burned
> for each phase to get a very accurate thermal efficiency number.
> 
> Regards
> Crispin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 21:33:53 +0300
> From: Nolbert Muhumuza <muhumuza at gmail.com>
> To: Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org>
> Cc: Xavier Brandao <xvr.brandao at gmail.com>, xavier at praktidesign.com,
> 	Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Kampala briquetting
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAOhP5jw8-L+pcoep5qnkjL1mUs88Zi2GQz8EWzwN-cTH_=67pg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Dear Stanely,
> 
> Paul is back in the US. My name is Nolbert Muhumuza i am partner/ associate
> for Paul in Uganda.
> 
> I will contact Bosco in the coming week to see if he can visit our site in
> Makerere Kikoni where we are also making briquettes for TLUD stoves under
> the Rotary Community Corps program.
> 
> Nolbert.
> 
> 
> 2012/8/31 Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org>
> 
> > Dear Paul  ssebo,
> >
> > Since you are in Kampala,  why not call up a few trained briquetters
> > starting with the UWESO organization right there in Nagaseru hill (the one
> > containing the fancy hotels and conference center and bordering the  main
> > business district.
> >
> > Since we (= ourselves,  Kenyan and other Ugandan trainers) trained them in
> > 2007, there are now about 1000 producers operating nation wide.
> > UWESO (at least eh briquetting component is headed by a one Bosco
> > Epila, Ag.Programme Director & Socio-Economic Programme Manager
> >    Epila Bosco <bepila at uweso.org>
> >
> > UWESO Offices:
> > 2Tagore Crescent-Kamwokya-Kampala
> > P.O.BOX 8419 Kampala (Uganda)
> > Tel 0392-777448 Mob +256 772  537 642
> >
> > Skype: epila.bosco
> > uweso at uweso.org
> > Website:www.uweso.org
> >
> > When you actually manage to get ahold of him please tell him to contact me
> > as he is missing !
> > Tulabagane,
> >
> > Richard Stanley
> > www.legacyfound.org
> > Ashland Oregon
> >
> >
> >
> > On Aug 30, 2012, at 2:46 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:
> >
> > Xavier and all,
> >
> > The usage as airplane fuel does not interest me, but the gathering of
> > plastic and making it into something usable as a fuel is very interesting.
> >
> > I am involved with a project in Kampala, Uganda with neighborhood cleanup
> > and making briquettes.   But we do not have a use for the plastic which is
> > all over the place.
> >
> > Does anyone have info about perhaps "melting" the plastic into blocks, or
> > some other way to utilize the plastic?
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
> > Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> > Website:  www.drtlud.com
> >
> > On 8/30/2012 2:38 PM, Xavier Brandao wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I sent a message without text, here is the link:****
> >
> >
> > http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2200029/plasticpowered-plane-to-fly-from-london-to-sydney?wt.mc_ev=click&WT.tsrc=Email&utm_term=&utm_content=Plastic-powered%20plane%20to%20fly%20from%20Sydney%20to%20London&utm_campaign=BusinessGreen%20Weekly%20Newsletter%20220812&utm_source=Business%20Green%20Weekly&utm_medium=Email
> > ****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Incredible, cannot help but think about the DeLorean from the movie Back
> > to the Future, powered by waste.****
> >
> > One day, we also might have stoves running on plastic. Oh wait, it already
> > exists :)****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > --****
> >
> > Xavier Brandao****
> >
> > Prakti Design Lab****
> >
> > www.PraktiDesign.com****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > === Prakti Design Videos (3 min) ===****
> >
> > Prakti Overview <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv-nuwbyUBU>****
> >
> > ============================****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email addressstoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web pagehttp://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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> >
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> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nolbert Muhumuza
> P.O. Box 40127, Nakawa
> Kampala-Uganda
> Mobile: +256-776-346724
> Skype: nolbertm
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 16:55:43 +0000 (UTC)
> From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> 	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, 	Andrew Heggie <ajheggie at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Powering a TLUD Fan
> Message-ID:
> 	<40519107.1104504.1346518543526.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Andrew and list: 
> 
> This is to ask for your thoughts on a different approach to air control than a fan (with or without a battery). That is to use a (pre-pumped) air storage "bladder" . 
> My rationale for this query includes: 
> 1. energy storage via air (CAES) has quite a few proponents. Large vehicles have operated on air storage (where electricity was a hazard) and there are companies building cars based on air storage.. 
> 2. compressed air supply is common in many places - as air-motors are lighter weight and cheaper than electric. 
> 3. What is needed in TLUDs is controllable primary air - not electricity. In Josh Kearn's bicycle-flywheel-fan proposal, one can compress air perhaps as easily as putting energy into a flywheel (using inner tubes or similar) and then conversion to a fan/blower. That is - one is storing exactly what you want to supply - no energy conversions needed. 
> 4. I think there are controllable constant volume-flow valves - that would also allow controlling power levels (turn down ratios). 
> 5. Your use below of the term 1 cubic meter per 1 kg biomass sounds potentially doable with moderate size "bladders". I have no idea how many atmospheres of pressure is reasonable, nor what material (if any) might be appropriate with simple TLUDs. The issue only is whether air storage might be cheaper than other approaches. As Crispin pointed out, the low pressure above the fuel supply reduces the needed pressure (but not the amount of needed air). 
> 6. The fact that the air will be heated going into the "bladder" and cooled coming out might not be a problem is the air is preheated by flowing downward through an outer air-tight "jacket" surrounding the fuel chamber. 
> 7. My gut feeling is that this will only work economically if a second use can be found for the "bladder". Solar plus rechargeable batteries can be pretty cheap when you are also getting lighting, radio, cell-phone-recharging, etc. 
> 
> Ron 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ajheggie at gmail.com 
> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> 
> Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 6:28:24 AM 
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Powering a TLUD Fan 
> 
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 04:54:18 +0700, Paul Olivier wrote: 
> 
> >The second is the pressure resistance of the fan (40x40x28mm). 
> >For a gasifier of a 150 mm diameter, the pressure resistance has to be at 
> >least 0.87 InAq. 
> 
> InAq being inches of water gauge above atmospheric? If so this is 
> about 250 Pascal, so 1 kg of dry biomass burned per hour at 
> stoichiometric air for complete gasification should be around 1m3 of 
> air, the 5m3 of air needed for secondary combustion would not need to 
> pass through the bed and as Crispin has said the offgas can entrain 
> the secondary air, though this is work it probably isn't much compared 
> with the resistance of the fuel bed. Rice husks have a high ash 
> content so I'm guessing its the ash that is serving to increase 
> resistance by blocking pores between the husks. 
> 
> Does the same happen with other fuels previously mentioned? 
> 
> 1m3 of cold air per hour is about 1/3 of a litre per second. As power 
> is force time distance and pressure and volume have terms for distance 
> that cancel out then power is pressure time volume per second in SI 
> units. 
> 
> 250 Pascal times 0.0003 seems to be 0.075W so there seems to be a fair 
> loss of conversion efficiency in the system somewhere, fans should be 
> about 70% efficient but as things get small they tend to get more 
> lossy. Or are my calculations wrong? 
> 
> Axial fans are particularly good at thrashing air into heat with no 
> useful work as they stall, they are good at moving large volumes with 
> little drop in pressure across them, laptop fans seem to be better as 
> they tend to be centrifugal ones that push air along narrow ducts. 
> 
> AJH 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Stoves mailing list 
> 
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org 
> 
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org 
> 
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: 
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ 
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 11:56:50 -0500
> From: Donee Alexander <doneealexander at gmail.com>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Stoves] fuelwood costs in Bangladesh
> Message-ID:
> 	<CANGqBiQVZnzyKGsU7ha34B736ir3WSrASO7Yu+7Wq6Ds1bnOnw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Hi Stovers,
> 
> I'm doing some research on cookstoves in Bangladesh, and I'm trying to
> estimate how much people in the cities pay for wood. Does anyone have any
> idea what this may be?
> 
> Thank you!
> donee alexander
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 11:13:14 -0600
> From: Phil Hughes <nicafyl at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> 	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Powering a TLUD Fan
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAAu-d+=P0-MZ_icNtcx0x_2ABHzZZfH9=UZkwPdPnKVbc6kyPA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I think this is a great suggestion. As much as I like electronic solutions
> (because that is what I am good at) I can see some serious advantages here.
> First, no batteries, electronics, ... is going to make it a lot easier to
> keep systems operating. While electronics is generally reliable, it is
> still going to be a lot easier to find a replacement innertube than a
> replacement CMOS chip.
> 
> The only "critical part" is the control of the air flow. I expect there are
> devices that do this just fine. Without doing any research, just a pressure
> regulator like the kind you find on an air compressor should get you close.
> 
> The rest of the system is then subject to local adaptation. It could be a
> flywheel-powered compressor in one place, a PV powered electric pump in
> another (allowing you to store the air when the sun was shining and use it
> whenever you want without the problem of batteries), water pressure, ...
> 
> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 10:55 AM, <rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > Andrew and list:
> >
> >     This is to ask for your thoughts on a different approach to air
> > control than a fan (with or without a battery).  That is to use a
> > (pre-pumped) air storage "bladder".
> >     My rationale for this query includes:
> >     1.  energy storage via air (CAES) has quite a few proponents.  Large
> > vehicles have operated on air storage (where electricity was a hazard) and
> > there are companies building cars based on air storage..
> >     2.  compressed air supply is common in many places - as air-motors are
> > lighter weight and cheaper than electric.
> >     3.  What is needed in TLUDs is controllable primary air - not
> > electricity.  In Josh Kearn's bicycle-flywheel-fan proposal, one can
> > compress air perhaps as easily as putting energy into a flywheel (using
> > inner tubes or similar) and then conversion to a fan/blower.  That is - one
> > is storing exactly what you want to supply - no energy conversions needed.
> >     4.  I think there are controllable constant volume-flow valves - that
> > would also allow controlling power levels (turn down ratios).
> >     5.  Your use below of the term 1 cubic meter per 1 kg biomass sounds
> > potentially doable with moderate size "bladders".  I have no idea how many
> > atmospheres of pressure is reasonable, nor what material (if any) might be
> > appropriate with simple TLUDs.  The issue only is whether air storage might
> > be cheaper than other approaches.  As Crispin pointed out, the low pressure
> > above the fuel supply reduces the needed pressure (but not the amount of
> > needed air).
> >     6.  The fact that the air will be heated going into the "bladder" and
> > cooled coming out might not be a problem is the air is preheated by flowing
> > downward through an outer air-tight "jacket" surrounding the fuel chamber.
> >     7.  My gut feeling is that this will only work economically if a
> > second use can be found for the "bladder".  Solar plus rechargeable
> > batteries can be pretty cheap when you are also getting lighting, radio,
> > cell-phone-recharging, etc.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From: *ajheggie at gmail.com
> > *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > *Sent: *Saturday, September 1, 2012 6:28:24 AM
> > *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Powering a TLUD Fan
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 04:54:18 +0700, Paul Olivier wrote:
> >
> > >The second is the pressure resistance of the fan (40x40x28mm).
> > >For a gasifier of a 150 mm diameter, the pressure resistance has to be at
> > >least 0.87 InAq.
> >
> > InAq being inches of water gauge above atmospheric? If so this is
> > about 250 Pascal, so 1 kg of dry biomass burned per hour at
> > stoichiometric air for complete gasification should be around 1m3 of
> > air, the 5m3 of air needed for secondary combustion would not need to
> > pass through the bed and as Crispin has said the offgas can entrain
> > the secondary air, though this is work it probably isn't much compared
> > with the resistance of the fuel bed. Rice husks have a high ash
> > content so I'm guessing its the ash that is serving to increase
> > resistance by blocking pores between the husks.
> >
> > Does the same happen with other fuels previously mentioned?
> >
> > 1m3 of cold air per hour is about 1/3 of a litre per second. As power
> > is force time distance and pressure and volume have terms for distance
> > that cancel out then power is pressure time volume per second in SI
> > units.
> >
> > 250 Pascal times 0.0003 seems to be 0.075W so there seems to be a fair
> > loss of conversion efficiency in the system somewhere, fans should be
> > about 70% efficient but as things get small they tend to get more
> > lossy. Or are my calculations wrong?
> >
> > Axial fans are particularly good at thrashing air into heat with no
> > useful work as they stall, they are good at moving large volumes with
> > little drop in pressure across them, laptop fans seem to be better as
> > they tend to be centrifugal ones that push air along narrow ducts.
> >
> > AJH
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Phil Hughes
> nicafyl at gmail.com
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 18:02:17 +0000
> From: Ranyee Chiang <rchiang at cleancookstoves.org>
> To: "stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org"
> 	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] Public Comment Period: Measuring Global Alliance
> 	progress
> Message-ID:
> 	<AE6BE5C8FD9DBF4D8CA0C003E58E2A441A36FA25 at mississippi.UNF.unfoundation.org>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> The Global Alliance for Clean Cookstoves is developing a framework to be used in Phase I of its activities for measuring progress towards the key milestone of 100 million households adopting clean and efficient stoves and fuels by 2020.  The Global Alliance is seeking feedback on the proposed framework and is holding a public comment period.
> 
> The  document describing the proposed framework is attached.  Please submit comments through the Global Alliance's online community.  If you do not have an account already, you may register here<http://community.cleancookstoves.org/registration>.  After you have logged into your account, join the Monitoring and Evaluation community<http://community.cleancookstoves.org/communities/home/36> and submit your comments by posting in this discussion topic<http://community.cleancookstoves.org/communities/forums/viewtopic/36/53/72>.
> 
> The document is also available online<http://community.cleancookstoves.org/communities/files/36/216> for people who have joined the online community.
> 
> The public comment period closes September 12, 2012.
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> 
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> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
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> 
> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 25, Issue 1
> *************************************
 		 	   		  
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