[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
Art Donnelly
art.donnelly at seachar.org
Tue Feb 5 18:34:48 CST 2013
Hi all,
This is inresponse to Dave Yarrow's post. Dave stick with it. You can turn
a bale of hay or straw into good looking biochar (I have not had that char
characterized yet) in a 55-gallon drum J-RO. In August on a farm out side
of Seattle I did just that. It was reed canary grass and I would love to
say it was bone dry, but... it was probably up around 18% moisture content.
This was done natural draft. We unbound the bales and flaked them out in
the sun all morning. That material was then fairly tightly packed into the
drums around a pc. of 6" diameter pvc pipe. After packing the pipe was
pulled out, as in a saw dust stove. A bed of mill-work scrap kindling was
laid on the top, with alcohol soaked cedar chip as tinder.
We kept both a propane torch and fire extinguishers at hand. We only needed
the propane torch. Because the RCG was damp we initially produce a lot of
steam. You can over come this by keeping a torch (weed-burner ) on the
gases. We were home free within 10 mins. and then had nice clean burns. We
kept a sharp eye on the color of our flame and got beautiful char with very
little ash.
With a fan you can save your self the jitters of ND TLUDs. You will get a
little less char, but you will be able to use a little denser packed and a
little damper input material. There is not much I haven't tried in a TLUD.
They are amazing, but learning to use a natural draft TLUD is like learning
to play an instrument. They take practice and some people have the touch,
some don't.
Straw, saw dust and coffee chaff can all be done in TLUDs and all are
difficult to char well in the retorts, which I have built or tried. All of
these materials self-insulate too well and so carbonize unevenly.
Treat yourself and try doing bamboo. We split it. It is the best input
material. The char tested exceptionally well. We had the same bamboo
feedstock which was charred in a retort, tested. The TLUD char exhibited
higher 'sorption
my best,
Art
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:00 PM, <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:
> Send Stoves mailing list submissions to
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> stoves-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: 150 gasifier (ajheggie at gmail.com)
> 2. Re: 150 gasifier (Ron)
> 3. Re: 150 gasifier (mtrevor at ntamar.net)
> 4. Re: 150 gasifier (Paul Olivier)
> 5. Re: Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar] grassifier &
> cedar chip char (Paul Anderson)
> 6. Re: 150 gasifier (ajheggie at gmail.com)
> 7. Re: Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar] grassifier &
> cedar chip char (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
> 8. Re: Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar] grassifier &
> cedar chip char (Paul Anderson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 22:37:12 +0000
> From: ajheggie at gmail.com
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] 150 gasifier
> Message-ID: <gvd0h8ttltn02cjgv647gejkgdhgaptm6b at 4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> [Default] On Mon, 4 Feb 2013 02:54:05 +0000
> (UTC),rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote:
>
> >Paul: (cc list)
> >
> >Very nice PPt!! (very long: >100 slides)
>
>
> Any free viewers for ppsx files?
>
> AJH
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 15:53:15 -0700
> From: Ron <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] 150 gasifier
> Message-ID: <D557E181-20AE-49EC-86AF-3BF314EA1429 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Andrew
>
> I found it worked on an I-Pad. Maybe Paul can save as a Ppt and resend.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2013, at 3:37 PM, ajheggie at gmail.com wrote:
>
> > [Default] On Mon, 4 Feb 2013 02:54:05 +0000
> > (UTC),rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >> Paul: (cc list)
> >>
> >> Very nice PPt!! (very long: >100 slides)
> >
> >
> > Any free viewers for ppsx files?
> >
> > AJH
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 10:57:44 +1200
> From: mtrevor at ntamar.net
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, Ron <
> rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] 150 gasifier
> Message-ID: <20130205105744.15245spi3emkch0k at webmail.ntamar.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Opens fine with Kingsoft free edition
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130205/50559c65/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 06:09:57 +0700
> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] 150 gasifier
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAOreFvbMpRzwfs7U-W_wEXt9bhQcz_NiwdvKKxdow4Zem2bFkg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> In its original pptx format:
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.pptx
>
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 5:57 AM, <mtrevor at ntamar.net> wrote:
>
> > Opens fine with Kingsoft free edition
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130205/1d3bbae4/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 03:57:05 -0600
> From: Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> To: stuart mather <kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au>, Discussion of biomass
> cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar]
> grassifier & cedar chip char
> Message-ID: <5110D771.2050504 at ilstu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Stuart and all,
>
> On 2/3/2013 10:21 PM, stuart mather wrote:
> > That's great, thanks Paul,
> > So the higher % yield of lower temp char is only extra weight from
> > ungasified volatiles, and not because less of the carbon structure is
> > being combusted? In a no oxygen environment, no carbon can combust, no
> > matter how high the pyrolysis temp can it?
> > And I suppose there's also the issue of recalcitrance. Do you know the
> > figures for increased recalcitrance from a higher pyrolysis temp.?
> > Stuart.
> The chemistry is important here. In the biomass are many carbohydrate
> (C & H & O) molecules. They are NOT elemental carbon (C). Char is
> produced by pyrolysis, which uses heat, whether with or without a flame
> present. Carbonization/pyrolysis (2 sides of the same coin) is the only
> way to make char at the surface of the Earth. Carbon that is called
> coal is by pressure and heat underground (or in a laboratory).
>
> More than this, we need some chemists to fill in the picture to answer
> your questions.
>
> Paul
>
> >
> > Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> > Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> > Website: www.drtlud.com
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> > *To:* biochar at yahoogroups.com
> > *Cc:* stuart mather <kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au>; Hugh McLaughlin
> > <wastemin1 at verizon.net>
> > *Sent:* Monday, 4 February 2013 2:00 AM
> > *Subject:* Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar] grassifier &
> > cedar chip char
> >
> > Dear Stuart, Trent and all,
> >
> > On 2/3/2013 6:32 AM, stuart mather wrote:
> >> Tom,
> >> Isn't the most compelling reasons for keeping the temp low is that
> >> the yield is higher. If one of the motivations
> >> for making biochar is to sequester C, then minimizing the amount of
> >> CO2 you emit to the atmosphere in actually making the biochar would
> >> seem to be prudent, wouldn't it?
> > Higher yields (as measured by weight) do not mean that more of the
> > "right kind of C" is created or put into the soil. Higher weights are
> > usually associated with having more of the volatiles remaining in the
> > char structure. So,
> >
> > Charcoal at minimal temps (I think about 300 - 350 C) have a lot of
> > carbon remaining as volatiles (mobile, can be leached in soils,
> > hurting plants), which is good if you are trying to ignite it in a
> > charcoal cooker.
> >
> > Charcoal at 450 C (in my opinion) is the bottom range of what is
> > decent to be used as biochar.
> >
> > Charcoal at 550 C to 800 C has less weight, but a larger percentage is
> > the desired carbon structures for good biochar. Very few volatiles.
> > And has higher adsorption capacity.
> >
> > McLaughlin has a great chart showing this but I cannot find it right now.
> >
> > Please see the paper on the internet: All biochars are not created
> > equal.... By McLaughlin, Anderson, Shields and Reed (2009) Also
> > available at my website
> >
> http://www.drtlud.com/resources/publications-and-multimedia/entire-catalogue/
> >
> >> I understand that if you need to cook with biomass then a Tlud is
> >> clearly the way to go. But can it be argued that people in the
> >> developed world would be doing the climate a favour by cooking food
> >> with a TLUD too, and leaving the fossil fuel gas or electric powered
> >> stove gathering dust.
> > I certainly like to read comments like that!!!
> >
> > And there is certainly room for a lot more efforts by interested people.
> >
> > Paul
> >> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> >> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu> Skype:
> paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> >> Website:www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com/>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> *From:* Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>
> >> *To:* biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
> >> *Sent:* Sunday, 3 February 2013 2:58 PM
> >> *Subject:* RE: [biochar] grassifier & cedar chip char
> >>
> >> David,
> >> Nitrogen in wood and straw forms ammonia and ammonia like compounds
> >> during pyrolysis. That is what you are smelling. Collectively they
> >> are called NOx precursors. When burned they become Nitrogen oxide
> >> emissions (NOx). As you suggest the TLUD is a more oxidizing
> >> environment and so you don?t see the same ammonia formation.
> >> The assumption that 450C is magic for all applications has to be
> >> further tested. We have anecdotally seen very good results with
> >> gasifier chars which are subjected to much higher (>600-800 C)
> >> temperatures. It is likely that TLUD chars are subjected to these
> >> higher temperatures.
> >> Tom
> >> *From:*biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
> >> [mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *trent
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, February 02, 2013 8:36 PM
> >> *To:* biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
> >> *Subject:* Re: [biochar] grassifier & cedar chip char
> >> Well Don, the noose is just hanging there empty so I am going to put
> >> my head in it. Looking to scale up and have tried a couple different
> >> things including using */_propane/natural gas._/* Until proven
> >> otherwise, I don't see how you can achieve a steady, consistent burn
> >> to account for biomass variables in MC, density, etc. */_and_/*
> >> produce the volume needed to make a profit on industrial sizing.
> >> Steel went away from charcoal to reduce costs. There is a lesson
> >> there. If 450C (842f) is the number being bandied about for ideal
> >> commercial biochar, its going to take a lot of processed biomass
> >> burned or wasted, to keep a continous kiln at that temperature.
> >> Processing biomass as fuel isnt cheap. Using a combination of gas and
> >> the biogas, industrial ceramics and automation to create an oxygen
> >> free enviroment, opens up all kind of doors. I have a very simple
> >> design in mind which can run 24/7 with gas and was wondering if
> >> anyone could recommend someone with a little more engineering
> >> expertise than my UHK degree to fill in some blanks.
> >>
> http://news.rice.edu/2012/03/22/cooking-better-biochar-study-improves-recipe-for-soil-additive/
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> *From:*David Yarrow <dyarrow5 at gmail.com <mailto:dyarrow5 at gmail.com>>
> >> *To:* biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, February 2, 2013 12:02 AM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [biochar] grassifier & cedar chip char
> >> On Feb 1, 2013, at 9:12 PM, Trent Lund wrote:
> >> > David
> >> > Do you think you could char a bale of straw or is it pressed to tight?
> >>
> >> hi trent,
> >>
> >> i've thought about that. ideally, we can design a burner that can
> >> char an entire hay bale without extra handling. might require a fan
> >> to improve the air flow thru the feedstock. the round stalks of hay
> >> and straw may allow significant leeway in how tight they can be
> >> packed together and still allow air to flow up through the stalks.
> >> dust is a further issue that can shut down air flow.
> >>
> >> currently, i use a TLUD, which requires air to be sucked up through
> >> the biomass. experience is this device is finicky and temperamental,
> >> and particle size and feedstock density is a significant issue. often
> >> i have to screen wood chips through 1/4-inch hardware cloth to
> >> separate out the dust and finer particles, or the TLUD chokes, the
> >> gas flare goes out, and a smoky, stinky burn results. i'm concerned
> >> hay, straw, weeds, even cornstalks might similarly choke my TLUD, so
> >> my first test burn last weekend with hay for feedstock, i was careful
> >> to loosen the stalks of the tightly packed hay bale and pack it in
> >> the barrel loosely but firmly.
> >>
> >> in the next two months, i will do more test burns with a variety of
> >> weedy materials. i will experiment to see how tight i can pack hay or
> >> straw without choking the updraft.
> >>
> >> two years ago, i was using a 55/30-gallon kiln & retort to char
> >> sticks and limbs of applewood for saratoga apple orchard. apple is
> >> denser than oak or maple, and harder to ignite and burn. what worked
> >> well was to loosely pack straw with the applewood. straw gasifies
> >> faster that wood, and kickstarts pyrolysis until temperatures are
> >> intense enough to gasify the denser applewood. worked so well the
> >> applewood limbs would shatter into small chunks, making them easier
> >> to process into soil mixes.
> >>
> >> curiously, i discovered that a freshly opened retort with straw char
> >> emitted such strong ammonia odor it would knock my head back. never
> >> got to fully explore what that was, but it seemed certain the ammonia
> >> was coming from the straw. with a TLUD, i doubt ammonia will be
> >> created, or if so, it will be oxidized and burnt off in the gas flare.
> >>
> >> david
> >>
> >>
> >> __._,_.___
> >> Reply via web post
> >> <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyajk2ZWIzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxNDQ3MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY-?act=reply&messageNum=14472
> >
> >> Reply to sender
> >> <mailto:kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au
> ?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20grassifier%20%26%20cedar%20chip%20char>
> >> Reply to group
> >> <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com
> ?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20grassifier%20%26%20cedar%20chip%20char>
> >> Start a New Topic
> >> <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmc2ZiazEwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY-
> >
> >> Messages in this topic
> >> <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/message/14460;_ylc=X3oDMTM3aGloNnFnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxNDQ3MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzYEdHBjSWQDMTQ0NjA-
> >
> >> (10)
> >>
> >> Recent Activity:
> >>
> >> * New Members
> >> <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJncjFnbDk2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU5ODk0Nzc2?o=6
> >
> >> 2
> >>
> >> Visit Your Group
> >> <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMWZ1Y3FoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY-
> >
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups
> >> <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZ3Bla2M0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1OTg5NDc3Ng--
> >
> >>
> >> Switch to: Text-Only
> >> <mailto:biochar-traditional at yahoogroups.com
> ?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional>,
> >> Daily Digest
> >> <mailto:biochar-digest at yahoogroups.com
> ?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest>
> >> ? Unsubscribe
> >> <mailto:biochar-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> ?
> >> Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> ? Send us Feedback
> >> <mailto:ygroupsnotifications at yahoogroups.com
> ?subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20redesigned%20individual%20mail%20v1>
> >> .
> >>
> >> __,_._,___
> >
> >
> >
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130205/3021031a/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 10:07:49 +0000
> From: ajheggie at gmail.com
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] 150 gasifier
> Message-ID: <8dm1h85vfoss4v3fec3n8ji6ls50slfb4e at 4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> [Default] On Tue, 5 Feb 2013 06:09:57 +0700,Paul Olivier
> <paul.olivier at esrla.com> wrote:
>
> >In its original pptx format:
> >
> >https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.pptx
> >
>
> Thanks Paul, that opens with openoffice, my version of microsoft
> office is 2003 and won't open XML files.
>
> AJH
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 09:17:19 -0500
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar]
> grassifier & cedar chip char
> Message-ID: <08a101ce03ab$82d8f2b0$888ad810$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Stuart and Paul
>
>
>
> The elemental analysis (ultimate analysis) of residual char is an
> important topic of future investigation and it is surprising how little has
> been done. There are coal analysis methods that are popular and routine,
> however they are not just misleading, they can be highly misleading if you
> take them to be a list of what is in the fuel. They are more like a study
> of the result of systematised char-making than elemental analysis.
>
>
>
> The concept that throws people off is that of ?fixed carbon? as if there
> was some carbon in the fuel that will not pyrolyse. Even if there was, it
> is not a measure of the total carbon in a fuel.
>
>
>
> So the lower temperature pyrolysis does not only increase the amount of
> volatiles, and it is also not only the carbon in those volatiles that may
> or may not be missing. It is not simple at all and the only way to
> investigate the result is with systematic analysis of the elements in the
> resulting product. In addition, for practical reasons, one would want to
> know the chemical contents because while knowing the total quantity of each
> element, or at least MASHCON as we call it for HTP calculations, the type
> and % of volatiles is still important.
>
>
>
> Lighting very low volatiles high-carbon fuels is much more difficult than
> the converse. That matters a lot when designing a cooking system. I know
> there are serious implications for buried char when the wrong volatiles are
> manufactured in the hot, organic chemical-filled spaces in the pyrolysing
> fuel. The literature suggests that in Japan they are very specific about
> the type of fuel and heat treatment needed to get the ?right? product for
> biochar use.
>
>
>
> So there are two paths here. The Low path of knowing what is in the fuel
> so chemically balanced test methods can be applied and the High path with
> the Low + the chemical nature of everything that has been manufactured in
> the ?retort?.
>
>
>
> I would settle for a middle path of knowing that the Moisture Ash Sulphur
> Hydrogen Carbon Oxygen and Nitrogen are (MASHCON) plus the % mass of
> volatiles. It is difficult enough to get that at a reasonable cost.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
>
>
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf
> Of Paul Anderson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 4:57 AM
> To: stuart mather; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar]
> grassifier & cedar chip char
>
>
>
> Stuart and all,
>
> On 2/3/2013 10:21 PM, stuart mather wrote:
>
> That's great, thanks Paul,
>
> So the higher % yield of lower temp char is only extra weight from
> ungasified volatiles, and not because less of the carbon structure is being
> combusted? In a no oxygen environment, no carbon can combust, no matter how
> high the pyrolysis temp can it?
>
> And I suppose there's also the issue of recalcitrance. Do you know the
> figures for increased recalcitrance from a higher pyrolysis temp.?
>
> Stuart.
>
> The chemistry is important here. In the biomass are many carbohydrate (C
> & H & O) molecules. They are NOT elemental carbon (C). Char is produced
> by pyrolysis, which uses heat, whether with or without a flame present.
> Carbonization/pyrolysis (2 sides of the same coin) is the only way to make
> char at the surface of the Earth. Carbon that is called coal is by
> pressure and heat underground (or in a laboratory).
>
> More than this, we need some chemists to fill in the picture to answer
> your questions.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com
> _____
>
>
> From: Paul Anderson <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu> <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> To: biochar at yahoogroups.com
> Cc: stuart mather <mailto:kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au> <
> kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au>; Hugh McLaughlin <mailto:wastemin1 at verizon.net>
> <wastemin1 at verizon.net>
> Sent: Monday, 4 February 2013 2:00 AM
> Subject: Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar] grassifier & cedar
> chip char
>
>
>
> Dear Stuart, Trent and all,
>
> On 2/3/2013 6:32 AM, stuart mather wrote:
>
>
>
> Tom,
>
> Isn't the most compelling reasons for keeping the temp low is that the
> yield is higher. If one of the motivations
>
> for making biochar is to sequester C, then minimizing the amount of CO2
> you emit to the atmosphere in actually making the biochar would seem to be
> prudent, wouldn't it?
>
> Higher yields (as measured by weight) do not mean that more of the "right
> kind of C" is created or put into the soil. Higher weights are usually
> associated with having more of the volatiles remaining in the char
> structure. So,
>
> Charcoal at minimal temps (I think about 300 - 350 C) have a lot of carbon
> remaining as volatiles (mobile, can be leached in soils, hurting plants),
> which is good if you are trying to ignite it in a charcoal cooker.
>
> Charcoal at 450 C (in my opinion) is the bottom range of what is decent to
> be used as biochar.
>
> Charcoal at 550 C to 800 C has less weight, but a larger percentage is the
> desired carbon structures for good biochar. Very few volatiles. And has
> higher adsorption capacity.
>
> McLaughlin has a great chart showing this but I cannot find it right now.
>
> Please see the paper on the internet: All biochars are not created
> equal.... By McLaughlin, Anderson, Shields and Reed (2009) Also
> available at my website
>
> http://www.drtlud.com/resources/publications-and-multimedia/entire-catalogue/
>
>
>
>
> I understand that if you need to cook with biomass then a Tlud is
> clearly the way to go. But can it be argued that people in the developed
> world would be doing the climate a favour by cooking food with a TLUD too,
> and leaving the fossil fuel gas or electric powered stove gathering dust.
>
> I certainly like to read comments like that!!!
>
> And there is certainly room for a lot more efforts by interested people.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com/>
> _____
>
>
> From: Tom Miles <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com> <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> To: biochar at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, 3 February 2013 2:58 PM
> Subject: RE: [biochar] grassifier & cedar chip char
>
>
>
>
>
> David,
>
>
>
> Nitrogen in wood and straw forms ammonia and ammonia like compounds during
> pyrolysis. That is what you are smelling. Collectively they are called NOx
> precursors. When burned they become Nitrogen oxide emissions (NOx). As you
> suggest the TLUD is a more oxidizing environment and so you don?t see the
> same ammonia formation.
>
>
>
> The assumption that 450C is magic for all applications has to be further
> tested. We have anecdotally seen very good results with gasifier chars
> which are subjected to much higher (>600-800 C) temperatures. It is likely
> that TLUD chars are subjected to these higher temperatures.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> From: biochar at yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of trent
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 8:36 PM
> To: biochar at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [biochar] grassifier & cedar chip char
>
>
>
>
>
> Well Don, the noose is just hanging there empty so I am going to put my
> head in it. Looking to scale up and have tried a couple different things
> including using propane/natural gas. Until proven otherwise, I don't see
> how you can achieve a steady, consistent burn to account for biomass
> variables in MC, density, etc. and produce the volume needed to make a
> profit on industrial sizing. Steel went away from charcoal to reduce
> costs. There is a lesson there. If 450C (842f) is the number being
> bandied about for ideal commercial biochar, its going to take a lot of
> processed biomass burned or wasted, to keep a continous kiln at that
> temperature. Processing biomass as fuel isnt cheap. Using a combination of
> gas and the biogas, industrial ceramics and automation to create an oxygen
> free enviroment, opens up all kind of doors. I have a very simple design
> in mind which can run 24/7 with gas and was wondering if anyone could
> recommend someone with a little more engineering expertise than
> my UHK degree to fill in some blanks.
>
>
>
>
> http://news.rice.edu/2012/03/22/cooking-better-biochar-study-improves-recipe-for-soil-additive/
>
> _____
>
> From: David Yarrow <dyarrow5 at gmail.com>
> To: biochar at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 12:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [biochar] grassifier & cedar chip char
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2013, at 9:12 PM, Trent Lund wrote:
> > David
> > Do you think you could char a bale of straw or is it pressed to tight?
>
> hi trent,
>
> i've thought about that. ideally, we can design a burner that can char an
> entire hay bale without extra handling. might require a fan to improve the
> air flow thru the feedstock. the round stalks of hay and straw may allow
> significant leeway in how tight they can be packed together and still allow
> air to flow up through the stalks. dust is a further issue that can shut
> down air flow.
>
> currently, i use a TLUD, which requires air to be sucked up through the
> biomass. experience is this device is finicky and temperamental, and
> particle size and feedstock density is a significant issue. often i have to
> screen wood chips through 1/4-inch hardware cloth to separate out the dust
> and finer particles, or the TLUD chokes, the gas flare goes out, and a
> smoky, stinky burn results. i'm concerned hay, straw, weeds, even
> cornstalks might similarly choke my TLUD, so my first test burn last
> weekend with hay for feedstock, i was careful to loosen the stalks of the
> tightly packed hay bale and pack it in the barrel loosely but firmly.
>
> in the next two months, i will do more test burns with a variety of weedy
> materials. i will experiment to see how tight i can pack hay or straw
> without choking the updraft.
>
> two years ago, i was using a 55/30-gallon kiln & retort to char sticks and
> limbs of applewood for saratoga apple orchard. apple is denser than oak or
> maple, and harder to ignite and burn. what worked well was to loosely pack
> straw with the applewood. straw gasifies faster that wood, and kickstarts
> pyrolysis until temperatures are intense enough to gasify the denser
> applewood. worked so well the applewood limbs would shatter into small
> chunks, making them easier to process into soil mixes.
>
> curiously, i discovered that a freshly opened retort with straw char
> emitted such strong ammonia odor it would knock my head back. never got to
> fully explore what that was, but it seemed certain the ammonia was coming
> from the straw. with a TLUD, i doubt ammonia will be created, or if so, it
> will be oxidized and burnt off in the gas flare.
>
> david
>
>
>
>
>
> __._,_.___
>
>
> <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyajk2ZWIzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxNDQ3MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY-?act=reply&messageNum=14472>
> Reply via web post
>
> <mailto:kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20grassifier%20%26%20cedar%20chip%20char>
> Reply to sender
>
> <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20grassifier%20%26%20cedar%20chip%20char>
> Reply to group
>
> <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmc2ZiazEwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY->
> Start a New Topic
>
> <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/message/14460;_ylc=X3oDMTM3aGloNnFnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxNDQ3MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzYEdHBjSWQDMTQ0NjA->
> Messages in this topic (10)
>
> Recent Activity:
>
> ? <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJncjFnbDk2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU5ODk0Nzc2?o=6>
> New Members 2
>
> <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMWZ1Y3FoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY->
> Visit Your Group
>
> <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZ3Bla2M0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1OTg5NDc3Ng-->
> Yahoo! Groups
>
> Switch to: <mailto:biochar-traditional at yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional>
> Text-Only, <mailto:biochar-digest at yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest>
> Daily Digest ? <mailto:biochar-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> Unsubscribe ? <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Use ?
> <mailto:ygroupsnotifications at yahoogroups.com?subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20redesigned%20individual%20mail%20v1>
> Send us Feedback
>
> .
>
> __,_._,___
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130205/9f6d0f01/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 09:13:27 -0600
> From: Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Cc: Hugh McLaughlin <wastemin1 at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar]
> grassifier & cedar chip char
> Message-ID: <51112197.5010607 at ilstu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> *All,
>
> Quick *reply as I rush to the airport to go to Uganda for 3 weeks:
>
> > The concept that throws people off is that of 'fixed carbon' as if
> > there was some carbon in the fuel that will not pyrolyse. Even if
> > there was, it is not a measure of the total carbon in a fuel.
> >
> > So the lower temperature pyrolysis does not only increase the amount
> > of volatiles, and it is also not only the carbon in those volatiles
> > that may or may not be missing.
> 1. As far as I know, there is no "fixed carbon" in the biomass. It is
> fixed during the process of carbonization/pyrolysis.
>
> 2. Some biomass such as seeds have "oils" that vaporize or are
> volatile. They are generally not pyrolyzed. However, the lignin and
> other "stuff" in biomass is what is pyrolyzed and gives off pyrolytic
> gases that are volatile. At low temperatures, the future volatiles are
> not yet in a form that can be called volatile. But they will volatize
> when subjected to higher temperatures.
>
> I will accept what the chemist eventually clarify for us.
>
> Paul
>
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
> On 2/5/2013 8:17 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
> >
> > Dear Stuart and Paul
> >
> > The elemental analysis (ultimate analysis) of residual char is an
> > important topic of future investigation and it is surprising how
> > little has been done. There are coal analysis methods that are popular
> > and routine, however they are not just misleading, they can be highly
> > misleading if you take them to be a list of what is in the fuel. They
> > are more like a study of the result of systematised char-making than
> > elemental analysis.
> >
> > The concept that throws people off is that of 'fixed carbon' as if
> > there was some carbon in the fuel that will not pyrolyse. Even if
> > there was, it is not a measure of the total carbon in a fuel.
> >
> > So the lower temperature pyrolysis does not only increase the amount
> > of volatiles, and it is also not only the carbon in those volatiles
> > that may or may not be missing. It is not simple at all and the only
> > way to investigate the result is with systematic analysis of the
> > elements in the resulting product. In addition, for practical reasons,
> > one would want to know the chemical contents because while knowing the
> > total quantity of each element, or at least MASHCON as we call it for
> > /HTP/ calculations, the type and % of volatiles is still important.
> >
> > Lighting very low volatiles high-carbon fuels is much more difficult
> > than the converse. That matters a lot when designing a cooking system.
> > I know there are serious implications for buried char when the wrong
> > volatiles are manufactured in the hot, organic chemical-filled spaces
> > in the pyrolysing fuel. The literature suggests that in Japan they are
> > very specific about the type of fuel and heat treatment needed to get
> > the 'right' product for biochar use.
> >
> > So there are two paths here. The Low path of knowing what is in the
> > fuel so chemically balanced test methods can be applied and the High
> > path with the Low + the chemical nature of everything that has been
> > manufactured in the 'retort'.
> >
> > I would settle for a middle path of knowing that the Moisture Ash
> > Sulphur Hydrogen Carbon Oxygen and Nitrogen are (MASHCON) plus the %
> > mass of volatiles. It is difficult enough to get that at a reasonable
> > cost.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Crispin
> >
> > *From:*Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On
> > Behalf Of *Paul Anderson
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 05, 2013 4:57 AM
> > *To:* stuart mather; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar]
> > grassifier & cedar chip char
> >
> > Stuart and all,
> >
> > On 2/3/2013 10:21 PM, stuart mather wrote:
> >
> > That's great, thanks Paul,
> >
> > So the higher % yield of lower temp char is only extra weight from
> > ungasified volatiles, and not because less of the carbon structure
> > is being combusted? In a no oxygen environment, no carbon can
> > combust, no matter how high the pyrolysis temp can it?
> >
> > And I suppose there's also the issue of recalcitrance. Do you know
> > the figures for increased recalcitrance from a higher pyrolysis
> temp.?
> >
> > Stuart.
> >
> > The chemistry is important here. In the biomass are many carbohydrate
> > (C & H & O) molecules. They are NOT elemental carbon (C). Char is
> > produced by pyrolysis, which uses heat, whether with or without a
> > flame present. Carbonization/pyrolysis (2 sides of the same coin) is
> > the only way to make char at the surface of the Earth. Carbon that is
> > called coal is by pressure and heat underground (or in a laboratory).
> >
> > More than this, we need some chemists to fill in the picture to answer
> > your questions.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> > Email:psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu> Skype:
> paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> > Website:www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:*Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> > *To:* biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
> > *Cc:* stuart mather <kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au>
> > <mailto:kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au>; Hugh McLaughlin
> > <wastemin1 at verizon.net> <mailto:wastemin1 at verizon.net>
> > *Sent:* Monday, 4 February 2013 2:00 AM
> > *Subject:* Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar] grassifier &
> > cedar chip char
> >
> > Dear Stuart, Trent and all,
> >
> > On 2/3/2013 6:32 AM, stuart mather wrote:
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > Isn't the most compelling reasons for keeping the temp low is that
> > the yield is higher. If one of the motivations
> >
> > for making biochar is to sequester C, then minimizing the amount
> > of CO2 you emit to the atmosphere in actually making the biochar
> > would seem to be prudent, wouldn't it?
> >
> > Higher yields (as measured by weight) do not mean that more of the
> > "right kind of C" is created or put into the soil. Higher weights are
> > usually associated with having more of the volatiles remaining in the
> > char structure. So,
> >
> > Charcoal at minimal temps (I think about 300 - 350 C) have a lot of
> > carbon remaining as volatiles (mobile, can be leached in soils,
> > hurting plants), which is good if you are trying to ignite it in a
> > charcoal cooker.
> >
> > Charcoal at 450 C (in my opinion) is the bottom range of what is
> > decent to be used as biochar.
> >
> > Charcoal at 550 C to 800 C has less weight, but a larger percentage is
> > the desired carbon structures for good biochar. Very few volatiles.
> > And has higher adsorption capacity.
> >
> > McLaughlin has a great chart showing this but I cannot find it right now.
> >
> > Please see the paper on the internet: All biochars are not created
> > equal.... By McLaughlin, Anderson, Shields and Reed (2009) Also
> > available at my website
> >
> http://www.drtlud.com/resources/publications-and-multimedia/entire-catalogue/
> >
> >
> > I understand that if you need to cook with biomass then a Tlud is
> > clearly the way to go. But can it be argued that people in the
> > developed world would be doing the climate a favour by cooking food
> > with a TLUD too, and leaving the fossil fuel gas or electric powered
> > stove gathering dust.
> >
> > I certainly like to read comments like that!!!
> >
> > And there is certainly room for a lot more efforts by interested people.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> > Email:psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu> Skype:
> paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> > Website:www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com/>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:*Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>
> > *To:* biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
> > *Sent:* Sunday, 3 February 2013 2:58 PM
> > *Subject:* RE: [biochar] grassifier & cedar chip char
> >
> > David,
> >
> > Nitrogen in wood and straw forms ammonia and ammonia like compounds
> > during pyrolysis. That is what you are smelling. Collectively they are
> > called NOx precursors. When burned they become Nitrogen oxide
> > emissions (NOx). As you suggest the TLUD is a more oxidizing
> > environment and so you don't see the same ammonia formation.
> >
> > The assumption that 450C is magic for all applications has to be
> > further tested. We have anecdotally seen very good results with
> > gasifier chars which are subjected to much higher (>600-800 C)
> > temperatures. It is likely that TLUD chars are subjected to these
> > higher temperatures.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > *From:*biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *trent
> > *Sent:* Saturday, February 02, 2013 8:36 PM
> > *To:* biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
> > *Subject:* Re: [biochar] grassifier & cedar chip char
> >
> > Well Don, the noose is just hanging there empty so I am going to put
> > my head in it. Looking to scale up and have tried a couple different
> > things including using */_propane/natural gas._/* Until proven
> > otherwise, I don't see how you can achieve a steady, consistent burn
> > to account for biomass variables in MC, density, etc. */_and_/*
> > produce the volume needed to make a profit on industrial sizing.
> > Steel went away from charcoal to reduce costs. There is a lesson
> > there. If 450C (842f) is the number being bandied about for ideal
> > commercial biochar, its going to take a lot of processed biomass
> > burned or wasted, to keep a continous kiln at that temperature.
> > Processing biomass as fuel isnt cheap. Using a combination of gas and
> > the biogas, industrial ceramics and automation to create an oxygen
> > free enviroment, opens up all kind of doors. I have a very simple
> > design in mind which can run 24/7 with gas and was wondering if anyone
> > could recommend someone with a little more engineering expertise than
> > my UHK degree to fill in some blanks.
> >
> >
> http://news.rice.edu/2012/03/22/cooking-better-biochar-study-improves-recipe-for-soil-additive/
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:*David Yarrow <dyarrow5 at gmail.com <mailto:dyarrow5 at gmail.com>>
> > *To:* biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
> > *Sent:* Saturday, February 2, 2013 12:02 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: [biochar] grassifier & cedar chip char
> >
> > On Feb 1, 2013, at 9:12 PM, Trent Lund wrote:
> > > David
> > > Do you think you could char a bale of straw or is it pressed to tight?
> >
> > hi trent,
> >
> > i've thought about that. ideally, we can design a burner that can char
> > an entire hay bale without extra handling. might require a fan to
> > improve the air flow thru the feedstock. the round stalks of hay and
> > straw may allow significant leeway in how tight they can be packed
> > together and still allow air to flow up through the stalks. dust is a
> > further issue that can shut down air flow.
> >
> > currently, i use a TLUD, which requires air to be sucked up through
> > the biomass. experience is this device is finicky and temperamental,
> > and particle size and feedstock density is a significant issue. often
> > i have to screen wood chips through 1/4-inch hardware cloth to
> > separate out the dust and finer particles, or the TLUD chokes, the gas
> > flare goes out, and a smoky, stinky burn results. i'm concerned hay,
> > straw, weeds, even cornstalks might similarly choke my TLUD, so my
> > first test burn last weekend with hay for feedstock, i was careful to
> > loosen the stalks of the tightly packed hay bale and pack it in the
> > barrel loosely but firmly.
> >
> > in the next two months, i will do more test burns with a variety of
> > weedy materials. i will experiment to see how tight i can pack hay or
> > straw without choking the updraft.
> >
> > two years ago, i was using a 55/30-gallon kiln & retort to char sticks
> > and limbs of applewood for saratoga apple orchard. apple is denser
> > than oak or maple, and harder to ignite and burn. what worked well was
> > to loosely pack straw with the applewood. straw gasifies faster that
> > wood, and kickstarts pyrolysis until temperatures are intense enough
> > to gasify the denser applewood. worked so well the applewood limbs
> > would shatter into small chunks, making them easier to process into
> > soil mixes.
> >
> > curiously, i discovered that a freshly opened retort with straw char
> > emitted such strong ammonia odor it would knock my head back. never
> > got to fully explore what that was, but it seemed certain the ammonia
> > was coming from the straw. with a TLUD, i doubt ammonia will be
> > created, or if so, it will be oxidized and burnt off in the gas flare.
> >
> > david
> >
> > __._,_.___
> >
> > *Reply via web post
> > <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyajk2ZWIzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxNDQ3MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY-?act=reply&messageNum=14472
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> >
> > Reply to sender
> > <mailto:kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au
> ?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20grassifier%20%26%20cedar%20chip%20char>
> >
> >
> >
> > Reply to group
> > <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com
> ?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20grassifier%20%26%20cedar%20chip%20char>
> >
> >
> >
> > Start a New Topic
> > <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmc2ZiazEwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic
> > <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/message/14460;_ylc=X3oDMTM3aGloNnFnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxNDQ3MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzYEdHBjSWQDMTQ0NjA-
> >
> > (10)
> >
> > *Recent Activity:*
> >
> > ?*New Members
> > <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJncjFnbDk2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzU5ODk0Nzc2?o=6
> >****2***
> >
> > Visit Your Group
> > <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMWZ1Y3FoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzNTk4OTQ3NzY-
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups
> > <
> http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZ3Bla2M0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTM1OTg5NDc3Ng--
> >
> >
> > Switch to: Text-Only
> > <mailto:biochar-traditional at yahoogroups.com
> ?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional>,
> > Daily Digest
> > <mailto:biochar-digest at yahoogroups.com
> ?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest>
> > . Unsubscribe
> > <mailto:biochar-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> .
> > Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . Send us Feedback
> > <mailto:ygroupsnotifications at yahoogroups.com
> ?subject=Feedback%20on%20the%20redesigned%20individual%20mail%20v1>
> >
> > .
> >
> > __,_._,___
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130205/f884c8b4/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 30, Issue 5
> *************************************
>
--
Art Donnelly
President SeaChar.Org
US Director, The Farm Stove Project
Proyecto Estufa Finca
<http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2eaJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsUU5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9SKkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfeifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpDpyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlMSqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoyAXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji73zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUliWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0>
"SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130205/851ee4f6/attachment.html>
More information about the Stoves
mailing list