[Stoves] Designing for the affluent AND the poor.... this is NOT Re: ocean acidification

Sat Jul 6 09:36:40 CDT 2013

Dear Stovers,
  We made huge efforts to popularize our appropriate technologies among the
rural poor but failed because the lifestyle of the rich is the role model
of the poor. When they see that the rich live in houses build with cement,
they reject the bamboo houses designed by us. When they see the rich using
LPG, they too want to have LPG. So now we are targetting the rich who have
a second home which they call their farm house. We could sell them our
charcoal braziers (and also the char briquettes), wood burning
stoves, bamboo cabins etc. because that is the in thing to do when you are
roughing it out in a farm house.
Yours
A.D.Karve

On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

> Thank you Richard and Andrew,
>
> I agree with your comments below EXCEPT that you did not change the
> Subject line.   And therefore List readers who are fed up with the oceanic
> acidity discussion are unlikely to have read your comments.  By the way, I
> did NOT read those messages.   But I do read whatever Andrew and Richard
> contribute to the Listserv.
>
> Now, about designs for the affluent AND the poor.   This relates to
> "trickle down technology" that believes that by helping the rich, the poor
> will benefit.....  EVENTUALLY benefit.   Sure.   a few years or decades or
> lifetimes later.
>
> I am glad that affluent societies financially supported cell/mobile phone
> development.  A great example of trickle down technology coming rather
> quickly.   But it reached the poor societies because business found that it
> could make money off of the needs of poor people to also communicate.   And
> microchips etc are really inexpensive.   We are unlikely to see similar
> benefits relating to cookstoves.
>
> Even as it is today, MUCH of stove work/efforts are targeted to the more
> affluent of the poor, those who are in the upper parts of the BASE of the
> pyramid (BOP).   That makes more sense than trying to get biomass fuel
> stoves into typical American and European households.   But that approach
> (well established and supported by the GACC and the World Bank ACESS
> programs) still leaves a massive lack of attention to the needs of the true
> base of the BOP.   But at least the distance to trickle down from the upper
> BOP to the lower BOP is less (and should be faster) than trickle down from
> the Top of the Pyramid to be base of the BOP.
>
> If you decide to reply to this Thread of messages, please stick to this
> topic.   (Or change the Subject line to reflect what you are actually
> talking about.   After all, the Subject line has at least two purposes:
> One is to continue the Thread, and the other is to inform the reader what
> is the actual subject being discussed.)
>
> Paul      with 4 more days in Uganda, then I bring home over 300 pounds of
> stove progress (available baggage allowance for 3 people) to show at Stove
> Camps and biochar meetings in late July, early Sept and mid October in
> Oregon, Tennessee, and Massachusetts, respectively.   I hope to see many of
> you as I cross the USA by car from my home base in Illinois.
>
>
>
>
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
> On 7/5/2013 7:01 PM, Richard Stanley wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrew.
>>
>> Climate "discussions" aside,   I wanted to elaborate on the implications
>> of your observation about where" designing" is easier:
>>   I agree with you that it is easier to design anything "for someone" (
>> especially those less equipped to express their opinions and experiences,
>> needs and resources)…... than to do it with them in their context…
>>
>> My own experience tells me that the latter is the sticky part that few
>> really want to get into and it's a huge part of determining whether or
>> not ones best intentions stick or not. That sticky part makes really
>> designing from within a good bit more challenging that simply designing a
>> technical object and selling it here….
>>
>> Richard Stanley
>> NW part of the Americas
>> ==================
>> On Jul 4, 2013, at 12:14 AM, ajheggie at gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> [Default] On Thu, 4 Jul 2013 05:41:33 +0700,Paul Olivier
>> <paul.olivier at esrla.com> wrote:
>>
>> It is easy to design stoves for poor people in Third World countries. It
>>> is
>>> a much bigger challenge to design them for use each day in our own
>>> kitchens.
>>>
>> Stove design and use is on topic for [stoves] but there are other
>> forums on which it is better to discuss world changing effects,
>> important as they might be.
>>
>> AJH
>>
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-- 
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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