[Stoves] Low temperature vs high temperature charcoal?
Josh Kearns
yeah.yeah.right.on at gmail.com
Tue Jun 18 09:24:15 CDT 2013
Tom I will keep my ears and eyes open for such a term appearing in the
literature. I might be inclined to call it simply "biogeochemical
weathering," but that is not very sexy-sounding. (Full disclosure, my MS is
in "environmental biogeochemistry"....).
While we're at it, we can add "bioregeneration," a term from the
biofiltration literature. This signifies when a microbial biofilm that
develops within a filter bed biodegrades sorbed compounds, thus
regenerating surface sorption sites.
Basically, what all this amounts to, as far as I can tell, is that the
combined effects of biology, natural organic matter, and geochemical aging
mean that a char's properties change over time *in situ* (in soil or in
some engineered system), and that this could mean an increase, a decrease,
or no significant change in the chars uptake and release of a given
compound of interest (metal, nutrient, synthetic organic pollutant, etc.).
How's that for professional scientific equivocation!
Josh
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:
> Josh,****
>
> ** **
>
> From Germany we see the term “bioactivation” to refer to the weathering
> that occurs on the surface of the char when it is composted. As Weidner and
> Glaser (2012) state “surface oxidation can be accelerated by microbial
> aging.”* *This has been shown to measurably improve sorption of nutrients
> and metals. In this use it is a biological process, not simply blending to
> supply nutrients. Scientists here object to using the term activation for
> the reasons you mention. Are there other English terms to describe the
> biological process? I’m looking for accepted scientific terminology, not
> inventions from creative bloggers. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Tom ****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Josh Kearns
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:10 AM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Low temperature vs high temperature charcoal?****
>
> ** **
>
> My preference is to avoid using the word "activated" in reference to char
> as it can cause some confusion or ambiguity.****
>
> ** **
>
> In the carbon sorption world, "activated" refers to chemical or physical
> processes that are undertaken after a material (e.g. coal, wood, coconut
> shells) are carbonized (pyrolyzed) in order to develop an enhanced,
> commercial sorbent. Our research into sorption by (bio-)chars could
> properly be classified as "sorption by non-activated carbon."****
>
> ** **
>
> Some in the biochar world advocate "activating" biochar, by which they
> mean blending it with compost or saturating it with nutrient or microbial
> mixtures, in order that it then desorb plant available nutrients and not
> initially withdraw nutrients from the soil decreasing yields.****
>
> ** **
>
> I like to reserve the term "activated" for commercial activated carbon
> products. Perhaps the latter practice could be termed "preloading" biochar
> with beneficial nutrients/microbes? It would be helpful if a convention
> were to establish around this type of precise terminology.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thought?****
>
> ** **
>
> Josh****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Kevin C <kchisholm at ca.inter.net> wrote:**
> **
>
> Dear Tom and AD
>
> Very interesting and potentially extremely important!!
>
> This could potentially explain the apparent differences between biochar
> tests run with different biochars.
> 1: I recall a report stating that "... activated charcoal is not as good
> as charcoal that had not been activated, in agricultural applications..."
> 2: I recall another report that stated basically "... high temperature
> char was not as good as "medium" temperature char.
> 3: Intuitively, I would expect that "low temperature char" has higher
> residual tar content, which "coats" absorption sites.
>
> The very generalized conclusions I draw from the above are:
> 1: "Activated Charcoal", by definition, is more "active", and has a
> stronger tendency to hold on to available soil nutrients. "The best use"
> for "activated char" would be for "Soil remediation" where it is desired to
> capture and sequester undesirable "soil contaminants", such as toxic
> organic compounds, or undesirable heavy metal ions.
>
> 2: "High Temperature Charcoal" has properties that are similar to, but not
> as intense as, "Activated Charcoal".
>
> 3: "Medium Temperature Charcoal" has better properties for biochar
> intended for Agricultural Applications, in terms of its ability to "entrap
> soil nutrients, but to release them easily for use by soil organisms and
> plants.
>
> Now, here is a conflict: If Terra Preta was made from "purpose made
> charcoal", such as would be produced in a "pit kiln", it would be "low
> temperature char", which conceptually should not be as good a "nutrient
> retainer" as would be "Medium temperature char". The question now is:
> "Was Terra Preta made from "medium temperature char", such as would be
> made from a "slash and char" process, or was it made from a "low
> temperature char" such as would be made from a "charcoal pit process"?
>
> This then leads to more questions:
> 1: Are the tar components in "low temperature char" actually beneficial to
> the soil and the plant growing process?
> 2: Are "Low Temperature" and "Medium Temperature" chars both beneficial,
> but do they have different operating mechanisms?
>
> Any insights into the correctness or incorrectness of the above ponderings
> will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
>
> Quoting Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>:****
>
> Dear Tom,
> we used to use the oven and retort process for making charcoal from
> sugarcane leaves. A scientist from the National Chemical Laboratory in Pune
> studied our charcoal at that time and told us that it could not be
> considered to be activated charcoal. Nowadays we use a TLUD kiln of 200
> litre capacity for making charcoal from the same raw material. Recently I
> gave a sample of this charcoal to the same scientist and he reported that
> it had the absorptive properies of activated charcoal.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 1:24 AM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com>
> wrote:****
>
> Dear Biochar developers;
>
> Conventional charcoal making (with an external heat source around a
> vessel) typically reach temperatures of 300 C, at which point the biomass
> will Autochar itself up to 400-450C, an exothermic reaction.
>
> When I make charcoal using the cellulose combustion to heat the ~20%
> remaining charcoal, temperatures are in the 500-700 C range, depending on
> the insulation of the vessel and the combustion rate (superficial
> velocity).
>
> It is hard for me to believe that no one has commented here (that I've
> seen) on the advantage or disadvantage of the higher temperature charcoals.
>
> Any and all comments welcome.
>
> Tom Reed
>
> Thomas B Reed
> 280 Hardwick Rd
> Barre, Ma 01005
> 508-353-7841
>
> On Jun 16, 2013, at 2:00 PM, stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.orgwrote:
>
> > Send Stoves mailing list submissions to
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Information shared on this Listserve (Timothy Roy Longwell)
> > 2. Re: Chimneys, rice husks [Ovens] (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
> > 3. Re: coconut usage in improved stoves continued (Paul Anderson)
> > 4. Re: coconut usage in improved stoves continued
> > (Rebecca A. Vermeer)
> > 5. Re: coconut usage in improved stoves continued (Tom Miles)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 14:21:52 +0000
> > From: Timothy Roy Longwell <tlongwell at zamorano.edu>
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: [Stoves] Information shared on this Listserve
> > Message-ID:
> > <EC67B308F6641743886918374ACE4076507EE159 at zamo-mail-02.zamorano.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Tom and Paul recently commented on the value of the information shared
> on this Listserve and they had a vision of condensing and publishing
> (before Tom retires) the combined experience and knowledge of the exchanges
> stored in the archives.
> >
> > I think that it would be fantastic if the GACC funded a consolidation of
> this listserve information.
> >
> > Chapters on the themes discussed on this list (fuels, combustion, user
> preferences, durability, emissions, health, etc - or however it is
> organized) would be extremely valuable and a great "snapshot" of where we
> are and what is known.
> >
> > Kindest regards,
> >
> > Timothy Roy Longwell
> >
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130616/d4d94283/attachment-0001.html
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 14:42:36 +0000 (UTC)
> > From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, Stephen Joseph
> > <joey.stephen at gmail.com>
> > Cc: Biochar-production <Biochar-production at yahoogroups.com>,
> > biochar-soils <biochar-soils at yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Chimneys, rice husks [Ovens]
> > Message-ID:
> > <
>
> 803054761.289654.1371393756883.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net
> >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Stephen: stove list, adding two biochar lists
> >
> > Three question areas - because I sense several major - maybe new -
> recommendations from you below.
> >
> > 1. I met Mr/Dr Khoi at the GACC meeting and thought his was a TLUD
> design. Can you point me at a site where the design is drawn and explained?
> ( have looked a bit, unsuccessfully)
> >
> > 2. I have been long impressed by your use of solid state theory with
> biochar - but I had previously thought you were talking only about changes
> after char placement in the soil.
> > - Have you written up this idea of coating the biomass input to a
> pyrolyzer with a clay to improve CEC?
> > - Any experimental data yet in the field for char with and without a
> clay coating during firing?
> > - If one was making pellets out of almost anything, would you recommend
> always a clay binder? (This has to be cheap.)
> >
> > 3. There are more than a few biochar proponents arguing for higher
> temperature char production (more adsorption/absorption - 700-800 C?). You
> have long preferred lower temperatures I believe.(with or without clay).
> Care to suggest an optimum T?
> >
> > Ron
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stephen Joseph" <joey.stephen at gmail.com>
> > To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 4:29:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Chimneys, rice husks [Ovens]
> >
> >
> > Hi Paul
> >
> > No we are pyrolysing them in the outer chamber so they are not subjected
> to direct combustion.
> >
> >
> > Mr Khoi's stove is not a TLUD. I would not recommend people use TLUD
> stoves for rice husks unless they cover the husks with wet clay and then
> dry the clay. This coating has the advantage of keeping the temperature
> down and also activating the surface
> >
> >
> > In any of my TLUD work I try to get people to coat their biomass in an
> iron rick clay to improve both CEC and yields.
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 7:40 PM, Paul Olivier < paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Stephen,
> >
> > Are you burning rice hulls at a temperature less than 450 C?
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Stephen Joseph < joey.stephen at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > <blockquote>
> > I paul
> >
> >
> > Not if you use the design with an inner fire box and an outer pyrolysis
> chamber as is Mr Khois design. In fact it is the main reason why I
> recommended this design configuration and sizing to PED.
> >
> >
> > We did a large research project with the Australia Government research
> arm ACIAR to optimise the design.
> >
> >
> > I have measurde the rice husk temperature in this outer chamber and it
> stays pretty uniform at around 450C after the initial drying and
> torrefaction phases.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Paul Olivier < paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > <blockquote>
> >
> >
> >
> > But, Stephen, temperatures can rise above 900 C when burning rice hulls.
> > If we operate at low temperatures (450 C) in burning rice hulls, are we
> not inevitably making a lot of smoke?
> >
> > Even at relatively low average combustion temperatures, will there not
> be a tendency for hot zones to form within the combustor?
> >
> >
> > Paul Olivier
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Stephen Joseph < joey.stephen at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > <blockquote>
> > All
> >
> >
> > There has been a lot of work done on formation of crystobalite. The rate
> of formation is both a function of time and temerature
> >
> >
> > If you have low temperatures (450c) and short times (<60 minutes)you
> wont produce it.
> >
> >
> > Mehta in India did a lot of work on this in the 80's and published a
> book on rice husk ash cement if I remember correctly
> >
> >
> > Regards
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Paul Olivier < paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > <blockquote>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > I found this news report:
> >
>
> http://www.ipsnews.net/2009/10/thailand-renewable-energy-not-so-clean-and-green-after-all/
> >
> > Not such a nice story.
> > I do not think it's a good idea to burn rice hulls or rice straw in
> either power plants, brick kilns or household stoves.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Paul Olivier < paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > <blockquote>
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > I have read in many articles that cristobalite can form at temperatures
> of about 900 C.
> > http://www.jicosh.gr.jp/old/niih/en/indu_hel/2004/pdf/42-2-24.pdf
> > In burning rice hulls, temperatures can easily exceed 900 C.
> > If cristobalite forms and is breathed in, human health is severely
> impacted: silicosis, tuberculosis, cancer and so forth.
> >
> > Silica (SiO2) is a constituent of the ash produced by the combustion
> process. Different
> > types of biomass fuels contain different quantities of silica. The
> International Agency for
> > Research on Cancer has classified silica as a human carcinogen. Long
> term inhalation
> > of airborne silica particulates can cause lung cancer or other related
> health problems.
> > As rice hull ash contains high levels of silica (~15%), its use as a
> biomass fuel
> > presumably increases the risk of developing silicosis-related illnesses,
> and care should
> > be used in handling the ash.
> >
>
> http://www.reap-canada.com/online_library/IntDev/id_eco_sugarcane/7%20Strategies%20for.pdf
> >
> > Silica (SiO2) is the main mineral component of rice husk ash (RHA)
> (85-90 per cent). It carries serious health risks, particularly to the
> > respiratory system.
> > http://www.dhf.uu.se/pdffiler/cc7/cc7_web_art4.pdf
> >
> > Cristobalite can be present in both the ash and fly ash. If someone
> designs a stove to burn rice hulls or rice straw, he has to be sure that
> temperatures remain below the point of cristobalite formation.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Tom Miles < tmiles at trmiles.com >
> wrote:
> >
> > <blockquote>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> >
> >
> > After discussing rice hull combustion and gasification at some length
> you are now saying this is dangerous. Why, specifically? You have discussed
> the potential to emit cristobalite but there is no evidence of the hazard
> it presents. What evidence do you have that burning rice husks or rice
> straw is a health hazard?
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Stoves [mailto: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org ] On
> Behalf Of Paul Olivier
> > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 8:56 PM
> > To: JJ Claire; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Chimneys, rice husks [Ovens]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > JJ,
> >
> > I would not recommend that you burn rice hulls ir rice straw.
> >
> > In many cases this is quite dangerous.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 9:40 AM, JJ Claire < pugoclaire at yahoo.com >
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings one and all,
> >
> >
> > I visit the Philippines often and usually stay about six months a year.
> >
> >
> > I often use a rice hull stove. I would like to get a plan to build a
> >
> >
> > concrete stove. I am also wondering if there is such a thing as building
> >
> >
> > an 'oven' using cement and/or concrete? I would like to build one,
> >
> >
> > a white model if possible, [vice a black model], if such a plan is
> >
> >
> > available and if the technology would be practical. We have a
> >
> >
> > lot of rice hulls and not all that much firewood.
> >
> >
> > I would be open to heating the oven with firewood and then
> >
> >
> > maintaining the heat level with or by burning rice hulls. I have
> >
> >
> > a lot of rice hulls and want to make the best use of the hulls.
> >
> >
> > I currently use the wood ashes to make lye so I can make soap,
> >
> >
> > but I have not used any ashes from rice hulls to make lye. I
> >
> >
> > wonder if making lye with rice hulls is possible.
> >
> >
> > The rice hull stoves we use are sort of a metal pail with a wire rack.
> >
> >
> > I am looking for a stove, hopefully one that is hot, medium and cool,
> >
> >
> > for cooking with rice hulls over a long number or years.
> >
> >
> > On our island, rice hulls are still burned to 'get rid of them', and
> >
> >
> > believe it or not, rice straw is still burned. I often ask neighboring
> >
> >
> > farmers to bring me their straw and provide them a small bit of
> >
> >
> > cash for doing so. We use the rice straw for making compost.
> >
> >
> > We add some rice hulls to the compost. Most of the rice hulls
> >
> >
> > are burned for fuel to cook with. We add the char from the cooking
> >
> >
> > process to the garden. I am wondering if we are making the best
> >
> >
> > use of the rice hulls and if the plans I am speaking of by post
> >
> >
> > are available.
> >
> >
> > Please inform, I am open to suggestions and direction.
> >
> >
> > Blessings,
> >
> >
> > JJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: " ajheggie at gmail.com " < ajheggie at gmail.com >
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org >
> > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 5:02 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Chimneys, rice husks
> >
> >
> >
> > [Default] On Fri, 14 Jun 2013 17:37:30 -0400,"Crispin
> > Pemberton-Pigott" < crispinpigott at gmail.com > wrote:
> >
> >> We are experimenting in Indonesia with draft-operated buoyancy
> balancers to limit the pull to the ideal even when combustion conditions
> change in the large wood stoves. They are easy and cheap to make. They are
> mounted on the side of the stack of all oil furnaces.
> >
> > We have used them on pellet stoves (which have their own id fans) to
> > limit draught on an insulated ss chimney that rose through 4 floors. I
> > wasn't entirely happy with the idea as it raised the possibility of
> > the boiler room getting combustion products if the seal wasn't good, I
> > would have been happier if the air was sucked from outside. In fact
> > there was subsequently a problem but this was down to poor
> > maintenance.
> >
> > AJH
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul A. Olivier PhD
> > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> > Dalat
> > Vietnam
> >
> > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> > Skype address: Xpolivier
> > http://www.esrla.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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> >
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> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul A. Olivier PhD
> > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> > Dalat
> > Vietnam
> >
> > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> > Skype address: Xpolivier
> > http://www.esrla.com/
> > </blockquote>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul A. Olivier PhD
> > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> > Dalat
> > Vietnam
> >
> > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> > Skype address: Xpolivier
> > http://www.esrla.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
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> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > </blockquote>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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> >
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> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > </blockquote>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul A. Olivier PhD
> > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> > Dalat
> > Vietnam
> >
> > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> > Skype address: Xpolivier
> > http://www.esrla.com/
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> >
> >
> >
> > </blockquote>
> >
> >
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> >
> > </blockquote>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul A. Olivier PhD
> > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> > Dalat
> > Vietnam
> >
> > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> > Skype address: Xpolivier
> > http://www.esrla.com/
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> > </blockquote>
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> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 10:57:19 -0500
> > From: Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Cc: Jon Anderson <jonnygms at gmail.com>, Hugh McLaughlin
> > <wastemin1 at verizon.net>, Bob Fairchild <solarbobky at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves continued
> > Message-ID: <51BDE05F.4080909 at ilstu.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > The discussion was about coconut SHELLS. And I think that a 20 L
> > "bucket" size would be an impressive demonstration, and I would use the
> > "5G Toucan Flex" design by Hugh McLaughlin. (5G is 5 gallons is 20
> > L). And I ask Hugh to please point us to the best description /
> > photos. This is a single-walled fuel canister.
> >
> > Could start smaller with the "Champion" size which is similar to the
> > Peko Pe, all of which have about 6 inch (15 cm) diameters. In a warm
> > climate (away from frigid breezes), it is easiest to start with
> > single-wall units that should work fine. Have plenty of chimney to get
> > good natural draft. There is no attempt to use the heat in these trial
> > runs.
> >
> > When successful (and please report whatever results occur), consider
> > going larger to 12 - 15 inch (30 - 40 cm) diameter, if there is
> > sufficient supply of coconut shells.
> >
> > I have had contact with at least one commercial entity that makes
> > charcoal from coconut shells in south-eastern India and sells the char
> > to Europe (because the shell-char is considered to be of such
> > quality). but I do not have that contact any longer.
> >
> > About coconut HUSKS, I hope some people try them in TLUDs. All of my
> > attempts (just a few) were not worthy of replication.
> >
> > Paul (headed to Uganda Monday until 9 July)
> >
> >
> > Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> > Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> > Website: www.drtlud.com
> >
> > On 6/16/2013 9:08 AM, Tom Miles Easystreet wrote:
> >> Paul
> >>
> >> What would a TLUD sized for coconut husks look like? Can you suggest
> >> dimensions and a fuel size?
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >> T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
> >> tmiles at trmiles.com <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>
> >> Sent from mobile.
> >>
> >> On Jun 16, 2013, at 4:21 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu
> >> <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Michael and Rebecca,
> >>>
> >>> The suggestion by Otto and myself about using TLUD technology is NOT
> >>> referring to the cooking stoves specifically, but refers to the
> >>>> the use of primative
> >>>> pit kilns and their pollution.
> >>>
> >>> In the pit kilns, they are already wasting the heat. A simple TLUD
> >>> could also waste the heat, AND avoid the pollution.
> >>>
> >>> There is every reason for Rebecca to make a simple TLUD just to see
> >>> that the char can be made for cooking in charcoal stoves.
> >>>
> >>> THEN, people could start to consider TLUD stoves, especially the
> >>> TChar designs that couple with the charcoal stoves.
> >>>
> >>> ALSO, when char is easily and cleanly made, the prospect of using
> >>> some of that char to improve poor soils could become of interest.
> >>>
> >>> Paul
> >>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> >>> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> >>> Website:www.drtlud.com
> >>> On 6/16/2013 5:52 AM, mtrevor wrote:
> >>>> Rebecca has primarily worked with fired clay rocket stoves.
> >>>> We were discussing the use of various parts of the cocnut as
> >>>> alternative fuels
> >>>> In the Philipines they have a fairly well developen market for
> >>>> various cocnut products as fuel
> >>>> In particulat they have wide spread fired clay charcoal burners. She
> >>>> had commented on the use of primative
> >>>> pit kilns and their pollution/ I pointed her toward Amy Smiths work
> >>>> hopefully to reduce some polluion
> >>>> Moving into retorts or TLUD unit may be in the future but I beleive
> >>>> for now she is going to be expanding her
> >>>> rocket stove capabilities. I am glad to see other picking up
> >>>> on Rebacca's travails
> >>>> I am not much into charcoal until I can find a effective use for its
> >>>> heat and smoke, maybe a copra dryer.
> >>>> .
> >>>> Michael
> >>>> Marshall Islands
> >>>> --- Original Message -----
> >>>>
> >>>> *From:* Otto Formo <mailto:terra-matricula at hotmail.com>
> >>>> *To:* Stoves Bioenergylist <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >>>> *Cc:* Jon Anderson <mailto:jonnygms at gmail.com>
> >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 16, 2013 10:13 PM
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves
> >>>>
> >>>> Rebecca,
> >>>> Haveing tested briquettes made out of rice husks and sawdust in
> >>>> a gasifier unit (Natural Draft), we experienced the same
> >>>> challenge to ignite and creating the pyrolytic front.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would suggest you create an upper layer of woodchips, on top
> >>>> of your coconutshells, to create that pyrolytic front more
> >>>> easily and ignite the chips, using woodshaveings or even gras,
> >>>> as a starter.
> >>>>
> >>>> REMEMBER:
> >>>> Do not pour liquid materials, like kerosine , directly into the
> >>>> fueling Chamber!
> >>>> This will distrub the pyrolytic process and reduce the outcome
> >>>> of your charcoal or biochar production.
> >>>>
> >>>> Good Luck.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >>>>
> >>>> Otto
> >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:03:35 -0500
> >>>> From: psanders at ilstu.edu
> >>>> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>>> CC: jonnygms at gmail.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves
> >>>>
> >>>> Rebecca,
> >>>>
> >>>> To make your oling (coconut shell charcoal), the TLUD technology
> >>>> is highly appropriate. The density of the shell pieces makes
> >>>> them slightly difficult to initially light (the same as with
> >>>> densified wood pellets). But just make a slightly larger and
> >>>> longer burning "starter fire" to get the initial layer of
> >>>> pyrolyzing biomass that becomes the pyrolytic front that
> >>>> migrates slowly down through the column of shell pieces.
> >>>>
> >>>> How familiar are you with the TLUD technology?
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> >>>> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu> Skype:
> paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> >>>> Website:www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 6/15/2013 12:48 AM, Rebecca A. Vermeer wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Michael,
> >>>> I am so pleased to meet an ex copra maker and one who knows
> >>>> the coconut so well!! So I presume you know very well the
> >>>> native "tuba" drink from the flower shoot? Do take a look
> >>>> at my photo album below :
> >>>>
> >>>>
>
> https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5889511496280160113/5889528293743607618?pid=5889528293743607618&oid=113101643783889350444
> >>>>
> >>>> -- you will see the coconut husk (bucong) strung together;
> >>>> your preferred frond mid ribs (palwa) and the charcoal from
> >>>> coconut shells (inside sacks and plastic bags). The
> >>>> charcoal makers are my biggest competitors for the bucong I
> >>>> need to fire my eco-kalans. Take a close look at photo #37
> >>>> -the small pottery to the right which looks like a vase uses
> >>>> "oling" or coconut shell charcoal; to the left you will
> >>>> find the big traditional kalans which can use firewood,
> >>>> "palwa" or "bucong". The "bucong" is the fuel of the poorest
> >>>> and the "bingka" or rice cake bakers; the "palwa" is bought
> >>>> by the not so poor; firewood by the middleclass; and the
> >>>> "oling " is bought by the many food vendors (like "tocinos"
> >>>> -- similar to sate in Malaysia or Indonesia, steamed meat
> >>>> buns, boiling water for disinfecting spoons & forks....) and
> >>>> households for broiling fish and meats (sinugba).
> >>>> Oling is made by burning coconut shellls in a hole in the
> >>>> ground --a smoky process with a lot of energy going to
> >>>> waste. Do you know a better way??
> >>>> Rebecca
> >>>> *From:* mtrevor <mailto:mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 14, 2013 12:31 PM
> >>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> >>>> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >>>> *Subject:* [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves
> >>>> Dear Rebecca
> >>>> As an ex copra maker I have met the coconut and know it well.
> >>>> I have made copra by the tons. I know coconut husk and
> >>>> flower shoot and fronds and shell
> >>>> Here the husks are generally burned in 3/4/5 wedge sized
> >>>> pieces. After the nuts are husked
> >>>> women haul them in from the husking areas and sun dry them
> >>>> in the yards. It is exhausting back breaking work
> >>>> Husk is a pretty good mosquito chaser and its low burn
> >>>> temperature make it very good for cooking rice.
> >>>> BUT THE SMOKE!!!!
> >>>> I would like to see a retort system running heat to a copra
> >>>> drier to produce better copra with out bugs and mold
> >>>> with coconut shell charcoal for sale as a by product.
> >>>> In more recent years the has been some switch to your
> >>>> "bucong" of course this mean no more shell left over.
> >>>> Splitting husk with shell in to multiple little wedges would
> >>>> be considered a lot of additional work. Coconut husk it
> >>>> tough stuff. I find slicing off the leaflets in the field
> >>>> and using the coconut frond mid rib chopped into segments
> >>>> and split length wise easier. The resulting stick like
> >>>> pieces feed into a rocket stove easier. The flower spaths
> >>>> are superb rocket stove fuel.
> >>>> Michael
> >>>> Marshall Islands
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>
> >>>> *From:* Rebecca A. Vermeer <mailto:ravermeer at telus.net>
> >>>> *To:* ; Michael N. Trevor <mailto:mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> >>>> *Cc:* Rebecca A. Vermeer <mailto:ravermeer at telus.net> ;
> >>>> Jon Anderson <mailto:jonnygms at gmail.com>
> >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:30 AM
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life
> >>>> Hello Michael,
> >>>> Thank you for your suggestions and question. My
> >>>> comments are as follows:
> >>>> 1. I have considered experimenting with high silicate
> >>>> ash from the foot of Mt. Canlaon, in northern part of
> >>>> Negros Oriental. The ash is free and my partners with
> >>>> the 11th IB of the Philippine Army in Negros Or. and the
> >>>> Memorial Elementary School in Canlaon would bring the
> >>>> ash to Dumaguete City. If this does not work, I'll
> >>>> follow up on the TLUD route.
> >>>> 2. Jon & Flip Anderson (Aprovecho volunteers) have
> >>>> shown me their work with insulating bricks to form the
> >>>> combustion chamber in Timor Leste. The insulating
> >>>> bricks are weak, fragile bricks which require a strong,
> >>>> heavy duty shell exterior (e.g. cement)to protect the
> >>>> combustion chamber and to support big cooking pots. I
> >>>> still think that tiny insulating "clay marbles" between
> >>>> the heavy duty, all clay, fired kalan and combustion
> >>>> chamber is the most practical way to pursue. I am
> >>>> hopeful Rolf and ECOWORXX can find a way to produce
> >>>> these insulating clay marbles or pebbles cheaply.
> >>>> 3. For those who have not seen a coconut husk -- it is a
> >>>> by-product of COPRA (mature coconut meat) production.
> >>>> Every 3 months, the coconuts are harvested, cut into 2
> >>>> halves, and meat is extracted and dried to make copra.
> >>>> The husk and inside shell is dried in roof-covered sheds
> >>>> or storage buildings to make "bucong" -- the fuel we use
> >>>> to fire the eco-kalans to 900 degrees Celsius. To use
> >>>> the "bucong" or coconut husk with shell for fuel in a
> >>>> rocket stove, it is requires chopping the husk with a
> >>>> machete into narrow wedges (like a cantaloupe) and a
> >>>> combustion chamber opening as wide and as high
> >>>> (5.5"x5.5") as that of the eco-kalan.
> >>>> Rebecca Vermeer
> >>>> Eco-Kalan Project in the Philippines
> >>>> British Columbia, Canada
> >>>> *From:* mtrevor <mailto:mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 14, 2013 1:44 AM
> >>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> >>>> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life
> >>>> Rebecca
> >>>> Why not gassify rice hulls in a TLUD and then use the
> >>>> low cristobalite "tough" high silicate ash to mix your
> >>>> insulation.
> >>>> Perhaps take a lead fom Aprovecho's play book and fire
> >>>> your liner in multiple wedge shaped pieces negating the
> >>>> need to break
> >>>> things up.
> >>>> How do to "prepare" your coconut husks for use in a
> >>>> rocket stove?
> >>>> Michael N Trevor
> >>>> Marshall Islands
> >>>>
> >>>> *From:* Rebecca A. Vermeer <mailto:ravermeer at telus.net
> >
> >>>> *To:* Paul Olivier <mailto:paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> >>>> *Cc:* Jon Anderson <mailto:jonnygms at gmail.com> ;
> >>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>>> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 14, 2013 8:25 PM
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life
> >>>> Paul,
> >>>> I currently use wood ash as insulating material
> >>>> between the kalan and combustion chamber of the
> >>>> eco-kalan (a rocket stove using wood, charcoal,
> >>>> coconut husk, shell, fronds and other parts of the
> >>>> coconut tree). The eco-kalan uses 75-85% less
> >>>> firewood and therefore a lot less ash is produced
> >>>> compared to traditional kalans and other traditional
> >>>> cookstoves in Negros Oriental, Philippines. A
> >>>> shortage in supply of ash is one fact
> >>>> or which affects sales of eco-kalan. I have
> >>>> considered making an insulating material using a
> >>>> 50-50 mix by volume of rice hull & clay in the form
> >>>> of pellets or bricks which would be broken to pieces
> >>>> after firing. I would fire the pellets or the
> >>>> bricks along with the eco-kalans up to 900 degrees
> >>>> Celsius. Will there be significant formation of
> >>>> cristobalite under these conditions? Would handling
> >>>> the fired pellets or the breaking of the bricks be a
> >>>> health hazard? Thanks,
> >>>> Rebecca Vermeer
> >>>> *From:* Paul Olivier <mailto:paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 14, 2013 12:07 AM
> >>>> *To:* Rebecca A. Vermeer <mailto:ravermeer at telus.net>
> >>>> *Cc:* Jon Anderson <mailto:jonnygms at gmail.com> ;
> >>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>>> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> ; larry
> >>>> winiarski <mailto:larryw at gotsky.com>
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: Fw: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and
> >>>> stove life
> >>>> Rebecca,
> >>>> If we directly burn river hulls, there should be a
> >>>> lot of cristobalite formed. If we gasify, this
> >>>> problem should be minimized, provided channeling
> >>>> does not occur. Also there might be cristobalite in
> >>>> the particulate matter in the combustion gases. With
> >>>> rice hull pellets in a TLUD we have a lot less
> >>>> channeling, and a lot less particulate matter.
> >>>> Therefore the rice hull pellet becomes an attractive
> >>>> fuel for these and many other reasons.
> >>>> Thanks.
> >>>> Paul Olivier
> >>>> On Jun 14, 2013 1:44 PM, "Rebecca A. Vermeer"
> >>>> <ravermeer at telus.net <mailto:ravermeer at telus.net>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello Paul,
> >>>> Larry just told me that the silica content of
> >>>> rice hull ash is over 90%. At the ETHOS 2013
> >>>> Conference, I saw a TURBO stove developed in the
> >>>> Philippines which used rice hull for fuel.
> >>>> Given your comment below regarding cristobalite
> >>>> "which is a nasty carcinogen" and severely
> >>>> hazardous to human health (see link below),
> >>>> would you recommend the use of rice hull as a
> >>>> household fuel for cookstoves?
> >>>> Rebecca Vermeer
> >>>> CRISTOBALITE LINK:
> >>>>
> http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1657.pdf
> >>>> *From:* Paul Olivier
> >>>> <mailto:paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:01 AM
> >>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> >>>> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and
> >>>> stove life
> >>>> Paal,
> >>>>
> >>>> One thing I look for on my burner is that all
> >>>> burner holes support a flame throughout the
> >>>> process. If channeling occurs during the process
> >>>> or if char is being burned as the process comes
> >>>> to a close, then one can see burner holes that
> >>>> do not support a flame. This means that CO2 is
> >>>> being discharged from the burner holes, and of
> >>>> course CO2 does not burn. When CO2 is formed,
> >>>> this represents a big inefficiency, since
> >>>> combustion takes place far below the pot. When
> >>>> this happens the sides of the reactor can easily
> >>>> turn red hot and melt. I do not know how it is
> >>>> possible to spot the presence of CO2 if the top
> >>>> of the reactor stays open and does not have a
> >>>> lid with burner holes.
> >>>>
> >>>> If one turns up the fan a bit too high resulting
> >>>> in channeling, it can happen that only a few
> >>>> holes (among a total of 80 in my case) do not
> >>>> support a flame. If I turn the fan down a bit
> >>>> and shake the reactor, this problem is
> >>>> immediately corrected. Also the effect of the
> >>>> presence of CO2 can be spotted by the cook in
> >>>> another way. The distribution of heat to the pan
> >>>> is not even.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also many of the positive characteristics of
> >>>> biochar are lost when biochar is combusted and
> >>>> is reduced to ash. The combustion of biomass and
> >>>> biochar takes place when channeling occurs, and
> >>>> the combustion of biochar takes place if the fan
> >>>> is not turned off at the end of the process.
> >>>> Rice hull ash and rice hill biochar are not at
> >>>> all the same thing when it comes to growing
> >>>> plants. Also rice hull ash can easily contain
> >>>> cristobalite, which is a nasty carcinogen. Under
> >>>> ordinary conditions, no farmer should be
> >>>> handling this stuff.
> >>>> Thanks.
> >>>> Paul
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Paal Wendelbo
> >>>> <paaw at online.no <mailto:paaw at online.no>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Ron
> >>>>
> >>>> By end of flame the color of the char is red
> >>>> to yellow, that indicate a temperature of
> >>>> 700 to 800 ?C and when there is no smoke,
> >>>> complete combustion has taken place. Is that
> >>>> not good for biochar?
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards Paal W
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Stoves mailing list
> >>>>
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> >>>> address
> >>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
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> >>>>
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> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>>>
> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and
> >>>> Information see our web site:
> >>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> >>>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> >>>> Dalat
> >>>> Vietnam
> >>>>
> >>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
> Vietnam)
> >>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> >>>> Skype address: Xpolivier
> >>>> http://www.esrla.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>> Information see our web site:
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> >>>>
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> >>>>
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> >>>>
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> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 10:08:33 -0700
> > From: "Rebecca A. Vermeer" <ravermeer at telus.net>
> > To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
> > <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Cc: Jon Anderson <jonnygms at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves continued
> > Message-ID: <3DE7BB1E424E44F89BCFDF1D258CD8E2 at RebeccaHP>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Dear ALL,
> > Thank you for your suggestions ?all food for thought. I don?t think I
> will have a problem igniting and creating the pyrolytic front for the
> conversion of coconut shells into ?oling? (coconut charcoal) if I use an
> upper layer of ?bucong? ?coconut husk with the shell in it. I have fired
> my eco-kalans to 900 degrees Celsius over a 10 hour period without problem
> sustaining any temperature level. To answer Paul, I do not have any
> knowledge base on TLUD technology but I am learning from these discussions
> and hope to learn more at Stove camp. I think it has potential for coconut
> charcoal making but I doubt if any of the TLUD stoves to date can beat the
> all around cooking performance of the marathon running eco-kalan (yes, a
> clay rocket stove!!). By the way, the charcoal performs very well also in
> the eco-kalan. You just have to double up the parilla (fuel shelf) ?see
> video towards the end, Cooking with Oling at
> > http://youtu.be/mRdwiWkVf30
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Rebecca
> > From: mtrevor
> > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 3:52 AM
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > Cc: Jon Anderson
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves continued
> >
> > Rebecca has primarily worked with fired clay rocket stoves.
> > We were discussing the use of various parts of the cocnut as alternative
> fuels
> > In the Philipines they have a fairly well developen market for various
> cocnut products as fuel
> > In particulat they have wide spread fired clay charcoal burners. She had
> commented on the use of primative
> > pit kilns and their pollution/ I pointed her toward Amy Smiths work
> hopefully to reduce some polluion
> >
> > Moving into retorts or TLUD unit may be in the future but I beleive for
> now she is going to be expanding her
> > rocket stove capabilities. I am glad to see other picking up on
> Rebacca's travails
> >
> > I am not much into charcoal until I can find a effective use for its
> heat and smoke, maybe a copra dryer.
> > .
> >
> > Michael
> > Marshall Islands
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Original Message -----
> > From: Otto Formo
> > To: Stoves Bioenergylist
> > Cc: Jon Anderson
> > Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 10:13 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves
> >
> > Rebecca,
> > Haveing tested briquettes made out of rice husks and sawdust in a
> gasifier unit (Natural Draft), we experienced the same challenge to ignite
> and creating the pyrolytic front.
> >
> > I would suggest you create an upper layer of woodchips, on top of your
> coconutshells, to create that pyrolytic front more easily and ignite the
> chips, using woodshaveings or even gras, as a starter.
> >
> > REMEMBER:
> > Do not pour liquid materials, like kerosine , directly into the fueling
> Chamber!
> > This will distrub the pyrolytic process and reduce the outcome of your
> charcoal or biochar production.
> >
> > Good Luck.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Otto
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:03:35 -0500
> > From: psanders at ilstu.edu
> > To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > CC: jonnygms at gmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves
> >
> >
> > Rebecca,
> >
> > To make your oling (coconut shell charcoal), the TLUD technology is
> highly appropriate. The density of the shell pieces makes them slightly
> difficult to initially light (the same as with densified wood pellets).
> But just make a slightly larger and longer burning "starter fire" to get
> the initial layer of pyrolyzing biomass that becomes the pyrolytic front
> that migrates slowly down through the column of shell pieces.
> >
> > How familiar are you with the TLUD technology?
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
> > Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> > Website: www.drtlud.comOn 6/15/2013 12:48 AM, Rebecca A. Vermeer wrote:
> >
> > Michael,
> > I am so pleased to meet an ex copra maker and one who knows the
> coconut so well!! So I presume you know very well the native ?tuba? drink
> from the flower shoot? Do take a look at my photo album below :
> >
> >
>
> https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/5889511496280160113/5889528293743607618?pid=5889528293743607618&oid=113101643783889350444
> >
> > ? you will see the coconut husk (bucong) strung together; your
> preferred frond mid ribs (palwa) and the charcoal from coconut shells
> (inside sacks and plastic bags). The charcoal makers are my biggest
> competitors for the bucong I need to fire my eco-kalans. Take a close look
> at photo #37 -the small pottery to the right which looks like a vase uses
> ?oling? or coconut shell charcoal; to the left you will find the big
> traditional kalans which can use firewood, ?palwa? or ?bucong?. The
> ?bucong? is the fuel of the poorest and the ?bingka? or rice cake bakers;
> the ?palwa? is bought by the not so poor; firewood by the middleclass;
> and the ?oling ? is bought by the many food vendors (like ?tocinos? ?
> similar to sate in Malaysia or Indonesia, steamed meat buns, boiling water
> for disinfecting spoons & forks....) and households for broiling fish and
> meats (sinugba).
> >
> > Oling is made by burning coconut shellls in a hole in the ground ?a
> smoky process with a lot of energy going to waste. Do you know a better
> way??
> >
> > Rebecca
> > From: mtrevor
> > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 12:31 PM
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > Subject: [Stoves] coconut usage in improved stoves
> >
> > Dear Rebecca
> > As an ex copra maker I have met the coconut and know it well.
> > I have made copra by the tons. I know coconut husk and flower shoot
> and fronds and shell
> > Here the husks are generally burned in 3/4/5 wedge sized pieces.
> After the nuts are husked
> > women haul them in from the husking areas and sun dry them in the
> yards. It is exhausting back breaking work
> > Husk is a pretty good mosquito chaser and its low burn temperature
> make it very good for cooking rice.
> > BUT THE SMOKE!!!!
> >
> > I would like to see a retort system running heat to a copra drier to
> produce better copra with out bugs and mold
> > with coconut shell charcoal for sale as a by product.
> > In more recent years the has been some switch to your "bucong" of
> course this mean no more shell left over.
> > Splitting husk with shell in to multiple little wedges would be
> considered a lot of additional work. Coconut husk it tough stuff. I find
> slicing off the leaflets in the field and using the coconut frond mid rib
> chopped into segments and split length wise easier. The resulting stick
> like pieces feed into a rocket stove easier. The flower spaths are superb
> rocket stove fuel.
> >
> >
> > Michael
> > Marshall Islands
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Rebecca A. Vermeer
> > To: ; Michael N. Trevor
> > Cc: Rebecca A. Vermeer ; Jon Anderson
> > Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 6:30 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] : Re: Insulation and stove life
> >
> > Hello Michael,
> > Thank you for your suggestions and question. My comments are as
> follows:
> > 1. I have considered experimenting with high silicate ash from the
> foot of Mt. Canlaon, in northern part of Negros Oriental. The ash is free
> and my partners with the 11th IB of the Philippine Army in Negros Or. and
> the Memorial Elementary School in Canlaon would bring the ash to Dumaguete
> City. If this does not work, I?ll follow up on the TLUD route.
> >
> > 2. Jon & Flip Anderson (Aprovecho volunteers) have shown me their
> work with insulating bricks to form the combustion chamber in Timor Leste.
> The insulating bricks are weak, fragile bricks which require a strong,
> heavy duty shell exterior (e.g. cement)to protect the combustion chamber
> and to support big cooking pots. I still think that tiny insulating ?clay
> marbles? between the heavy duty, all clay, fired kalan and combustion
> chamber is the most practical way to pursue. I am hopeful Rolf and
> ECOWORXX can find a way to produce these insulating clay marbles or pebbles
> cheaply.
> >
> > 3. For those who have not seen a coconut husk ? it is a by-product
> of COPRA (mature coconut meat) production. Every 3 months, the coconuts
> are harvested, cut into 2 halves, and meat is extracted and dried to make*
> ***
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Josh Kearns
> PhD Candidate, Environmental Engineering
> University of Colorado-Boulder****
>
> Visiting Researcher, North Carolina State University****
>
> ** **
>
> Director of Science****
>
> Aqueous Solutions ****
>
> www.aqsolutions.org****
>
> ** **
>
> Mobile: 720 989 3959
> Skype: joshkearns
>
>
> ****
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
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>
>
--
Josh Kearns
PhD Candidate, Environmental Engineering
University of Colorado-Boulder
Visiting Researcher, North Carolina State University
Director of Science
Aqueous Solutions
www.aqsolutions.org
Mobile: 720 989 3959
Skype: joshkearns
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