[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 31, Issue 1 Topic 2

Ron rongretlarson at comcast.net
Sun Mar 3 05:05:34 CST 2013


Cecil

   Your URL doesn't work.  Can you go to
        http://ehs.sph.berkeley.edu/krsmith/
and give us the right one?

Ron

On Mar 3, 2013, at 1:24 AM, Cecil Cook <cec1863 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear stove scientists and climatologists,
> 
> I accessed this article in its pre-publication form at no cost from the following URL 
> 
> <ehs.sph.berkeley.edu/krsmith/publications/.../lam_est_2012.pd.>
> 
> The article is hard going for me, let's say a bit opaque, as a person who last studied physics in high school. 
> 
> I am once again reminded of the risks of doing 'hard' science where there are so many unknowns and so many assumptions have to be made by researchers to construct a model about the relationship between the black carbon emitted by the wicks of illuminating lamps and something as gigantic as the average temperature balance of the planet.  
> 
> Unlike the cultural and social sciences (I am an anthropologist), where informants can and eventually do talk back and rebuke researchers when they stray too far off course and begin making ridiculous claims about the culturally and socially constructed worlds that particular informants are reputed to inhabit, Black Carbon does not have its own consciousness and voice.  Therefore BC cannot censure errant climatologists when they deviate too much from reality when they as researchers - who are honestly trying to understand the role of BC in the climate system - fall victim to their own mad hatter assumptions about a devilish complex planetary climate system. 
> 
> Unfortunately, the climate system does not have the consciousness, agency and voice in spite of what Kirkpatrick Sale says about Gaia.  The climate scientists presume to speaks for Gaia and when they succumbs to the temptation of playing science politics with the world climate system they run the risk of losing their way in the forest of his self created forest of symbolic representations of the how the planet's energy balances are maintained, and how such a 'fragile' system is possibly threatened by the careless actions of humans who create too much BC to light up the night. 
> 
> We know what a world of trouble Michael Mann, Lord Stern and their colleagues have gotten themselves into by hyper-interpreting their climate data.  In the end their assumptions overpowered their common sense and perhaps their honesty and they permitted the politics of science to determine the assumptions they made about man's role in destabilizing and forcing the climate of the planet toward a hotter equilibrium.  Hotter than what? Hotter than the climate present we have known for the last hundred years? 
> 
> I see there are 90% uncertainty ranges for all of the figures used in this article.  I do not feel very confident with such a big range of variation.  How would climatologists like it if I said that if a particular stove using group is exposed to a particular improved or advanced cookstove that 50% of the households in this stove using group will buy that stove within the next 12 months with +/- 90% uncertainty.  If there were 1 million household in this group,that statistic indicates that 500 000 households can be expected to buy the better stove on offer with a range of variation around predicted 500 000 households of a low of 50 000 households and and high of 950 000 households. Maybe I have misunderstood what 90% uncertainty bounds mean.  Have I?  I do not know the usefulness of numbers that vary from 50 000 households and 950 000 households.  That is not much of a prediction in my part of the scientific enterprise. What is being measured? Whose uncertainty is at issue here?  Is it a measure of the ambiguity of the researcher or the methods used for measuring BC and its forcing effects, or what? 
> 
> Lastly, I would like a climatologist who is well informed about the role of BC to explain why there is not more BC over South Africa.  Is it possible to differentiate the signals of BC from illuminating kerosene from the BC signals emitted from the much greater combustion of kerosene in 'Panda' stoves and space heaters which have round wicks that are about 30 cm in circumference and burn kerosene at a rate of 1 liter a a day for cooking and space heating during the cold months (or up to 30 liters a month at $1.20 a day or $36 a month).  The use of these Panda heaters, although outlawed by the SA Bureau of Standards, is still prevalent because the stoves are so cheap (under $10) and they can space heat and cook at the same time.  The collection of firewood has become a class indicator so women in most townships do not like being seen carrying head loads of firewood.  
> 
> I would estimate there are 10 to 15 million kerosene stoves in the townships and villages of SA each of which uses a minimum of 30 liters of kerosene a month during the winter and perhaps 15 liters a day during the summer months for cooking.  Should not the burning of 30 litres a month x - being conservative let us say - 7 500 000 kerosene burning stoves in South Africa - or 225 000 000 litres a month of kerosene.  Would not the burning of 225 million liters of kerosene a month in South Africa produce a significant Black Carbon signal in the atmosphere over our fair country?  
> 
> This is not my field so I am ignorant enough not to be embarrassed by my ignorance.
> 
> In search of answers,
> 
> Cecil Cook
> Sundance Farm
> South Africa
> 
> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Otto,
> 
> Yes, I'll be in Cambodia.
> 
> I think that informing users of kerosene lamps how they can get rid of the soot could be helpful just as making other options available is a great idea.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dean
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Otto Formo <terra-matricula at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Dean and Crispin,
> 
> But you need to buy Kerosene, which costs close to two US $ per litre in Zambia, and are still fossil fuel.
> 
> We prefer waste biomass as fuel, for free and available everywhere.
> 
> Will you be attending the conference in Cambodia?
> 
> Otto
> 
> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 10:37:04 -0800om: deankstill at gmail.com
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 31, Issue 1 Topic 2
> 
> http://www.aprovecho.org/lab/pubs/video-gallery
> 
> Hi Crispin,
> 
> I agree that blaming kerosene instead of the lamp for making soot misses the opportunity to fix the problem not by switching fuels but by just fixing the lamp. Kelley Grabow and Ed Wilson did dome preliminary investigation shown in a video above that seemed to indicate that fixing the lamp might be pretty simple.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Dean
> 
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 10:51 PM, Geoff Thomas <wind at iig.com.au> wrote:
> Hi Crispin that link required some un-related password to do with Microsoft.
> > <https://mail.chemonics.net/exchange/emdelate/Drafts/RE:%20[Stoves]%20Gas%20Bottle%20TLUDs.EML/1_multipart/image001.jpg>
> No way it could be viewed.
> Cheers,
> Geoff.
> 
> On 02/03/2013, at 6:00 AM, stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> 
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> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Skoll article on HAP research (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
> >   2. Re: Gas Bottle TLUDs (Elisha Moore-Delate)
> >   3. Re: [biochar] Re:  ~Stoves and STEM education~ (Erin Rasmussen)
> >   4. Re: Skoll article on HAP research (nari phaltan)
> >   5. Fwd: Re: [Sfpnotices] Green Energy Solves Dual Crises of
> >      Poverty and Climate (Lloyd Helferty)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:07:23 -0500
> > From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> > To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
> >       <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Skoll article on HAP research
> > Message-ID: <00ce01ce15ef$3a1b7c90$ae5275b0$@gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Dear Christina
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the pointer.
> >
> >
> >
> > For the benefit of readers I would like to raise one point about the emissions and the fuel.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?Getting Good Data Could be Easy
> >
> > ?If solid fuel cook stoves and kerosene lanterns are used in the same households, then getting the answers we need may be straightforward and low cost. While in the field, mothers being surveyed about their use of solid fuel cook stoves could also be asked a few questions about their use of kerosene for lighting. Some additional field observations could be recorded. Existing resources allocated to studies planned for cook stoves research could be very easily leveraged to quickly and inexpensively begin to build a body of knowledge about the effects of kerosene lighting.?
> >
> > The article also says that ?A recent Environmental Science and Technology <mailto:http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es302697h>  article reports that as much as 10% of kerosene smoke is pure black carbon (soot) ? 20 times higher than previous studies had found.?
> >
> >
> >
> > The black carbon content of kerosene smoke is highly variable. It depends on what lantern is used and the power setting. The article speaks as if the emissions are created by the fuel and that worries me. This is an old fashioned view. It is like saying that ?wood is a smoky fuel?. It depends on the stove that is burning the wood, and how, doesn?t it? There is no doubt that one lantern may create 20 times as much black carbon particles as another lantern, but this tells us nothing about the fuel, it tells us about the lanterns.
> >
> >
> >
> > One alternative to a smoky kerosene lantern is a clean burning kerosene lantern.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Crispin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Christina Espinosa
> > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 12:50 PM
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > Subject: [Stoves] Skoll article on HAP research
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is an article about stoves and kerosene you all might find of interest:
> >
> >
> >
> > https://skollworldforum.org/2013/02/27/where-theres-smoke-theres-fire-a-call-to-action-for-better-indoor-air-pollution-research/
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:26:20 -0500
> > From: "Elisha Moore-Delate" <emdelate at chemonics.com>
> > To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
> >       <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Gas Bottle TLUDs
> > Message-ID:
> >       <CFC22A81DD304945BC918EA8680159BD3F27B8 at CHQ-EMAIL-BE3.chemonics.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Thanks Crispin. Appreciate the lovely photos and info.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: Stoves on behalf of Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> > Sent: Tue 2/26/2013 11:26 PM
> > To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Gas Bottle TLUDs
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Elisha
> >
> >
> >
> > What a great idea - so many harmonies.  In Mozambique old gas bottles are widely used as charcoal cooking pots, cut lengthwise from tip to bottom, after the valve has been removed.
> >
> >
> >
> > They last a really long time.
> >
> >
> >
> > Here are two types, one with the cylinder used vertically, one horizontally.
> >
> >
> >
> > <https://mail.chemonics.net/exchange/emdelate/Drafts/RE:%20[Stoves]%20Gas%20Bottle%20TLUDs.EML/1_multipart/image001.jpg>
> >
> > Baseline charcoal stoves in Maputo, Mozambique
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Crispin
> >
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:25:04 -0800
> > From: "Erin Rasmussen" <erin at trmiles.com>
> > To: <biochar at yahoogroups.com>,        "'JJ Claire'" <pugoclaire at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: 'Discussion of biomass' <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] Re:  ~Stoves and STEM education~
> > Message-ID: <010201ce15fa$13a7e2a0$3af7a7e0$@com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > A better source of information about the Stoves list, is our  cooking stoves web site:
> >
> > http://www.stoves.bioenergylists.org <http://www.stoves.bioenergylists.org/>
> >
> >
> >
> > Sign up here: http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > and check out the  cooking stoves archive: http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > Let me know if you have any questions,
> >
> > Erin
> >
> >
> >
> > TR Miles Technical Consultants Inc.    <http://www.trmiles.com/> http://www.trmiles.com/
> >
> > and BioEnergy Discussion Lists    <http://www.bioenergylists.org/> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> > erin at trmiles.com
> >
> >
> >
> > T.R. Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
> > 1470 SW Woodward Way
> > Portland, OR, USA 97225
> > Tel. 503-292-0107 Fax. 503-292-2919
> >
> > cell. 503-8882367
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: biochar at yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rongretlarson at comcast.net
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 1:36 AM
> > To: biochar at yahoogroups.com; JJ Claire; Erin Rasmussen
> > Cc: Discussion of biomass
> > Subject: Re: [biochar] Re: [Stoves] ~Stoves and STEM education~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     2.   Anyone wanting to learn more about the stove list dialog (a sister list, also managed by Erin) should go to
> >           http://www.mail-archive.com/stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org/maillist.html
> >
> >
> >
> > _._,___
> >
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 07:50:00 +0530
> > From: nari phaltan <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> >       <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Skoll article on HAP research
> > Message-ID:
> >       <CAGeG2tBO24Ht5_RQmbLewRO3k+Y6O5=wrGtVWs62QOugHYA3xw at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > This might be of interest to the stovers that kerosene can be made into a
> > very clean burning fuel just like LPG.
> > http://www.cseindia.org/userfiles/Lantern%20that%20cooks.pdf
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Anil
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:19 PM, Christina Espinosa <
> > c_espinosa1 at u.pacific.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Here is an article about stoves and kerosene you all might find of
> >> interest:
> >>
> >>
> >> https://skollworldforum.org/2013/02/27/where-theres-smoke-theres-fire-a-call-to-action-for-better-indoor-air-pollution-research/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Stoves mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
> > Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road
> > P.O.Box 44
> > Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India
> > Ph:91-2166-222396/220945
> > e-mail:nariphaltan at gmail.com
> >          anilrajvanshi at gmail.com
> >
> > http://www.nariphaltan.org
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 00:38:11 -0500
> > From: Lloyd Helferty <lhelferty at sympatico.ca>
> > To: Biochar-Policy <biochar-policy at yahoogroups.com>,  Discussion of
> >       biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: [Stoves] Fwd: Re: [Sfpnotices] Green Energy Solves Dual
> >       Crises of Poverty and Climate
> > Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP8737D43D68225A4170FCCEC0FF0 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
> >
> > FYI
> >
> >   Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
> >   Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
> >   www.biochar-consulting.ca
> >   48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada
> >   905-707-8754
> >   CELL: 647-886-8754
> >      Skype: lloyd.helferty
> >   Steering Committee coordinator
> >   Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)
> >   President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario
> >   National Office, Canadian Carbon Farming Initiative (CCFI)
> >   Partner of Toronto Urban Ag Summitwww.urbanagsummit.org
> >   Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:
> >            http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475
> >    Advisory Committee Member, IBI
> >   http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717
> >   http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675
> >   http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario
> >   http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/
> >   http://www.biocharontario.ca
> >    www.biochar.ca
> >
> > "Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell 'em, 'Certainly I can!' Then get busy and find out how to do it."
> >  - Theodore Roosevelt
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject:      Re: [Sfpnotices] Green Energy Solves Dual Crises of Poverty
> > and Climate
> > Date:         Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:23:44 -0500
> > From:         Robert Korol
> > To:   Sfp Notices-list" <sfpnotices at physics.utoronto.ca>
> >
> >
> >
> > Carla - thank goodness we are getting the power houses of our economic engines like the*World Bank*  on side with respect to green energy.
> >  Maybe there is hope for the world after all!
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:42:37 -0500
> >  "Carla"<carla.wong at utoronto.ca>  wrote:
> >> Source:
> >>
> >> http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/02/green-energy-solves-dual-crises-of-poverty-and-climate/
> >>
> >>
> >> Green Energy Solves Dual Crises of Poverty and Climate
> >>
> >> By Stephen Leahy
> >>
> >>
> >> UXBRIDGE, Canada, Feb 25 2013 (IPS) - Green energy is the only way to bring
> >> billions of people out of energy poverty and prevent a climate disaster, a
> >> new study reveals.
> >>
> >> Conservative institutions like the World Bank, the International Energy
> >> Agency and accounting giant Price Waterhouse Coopers (PwC) all warn humanity
> >> is on a path to climate catastrophe unless fossil fuel energy is replaced by
> >> green energy.
> >>
> >> The U.N.'s/*Sustainable Energy for All*/  initiative intends to bring universal
> >> access to modern energy, doubling the share of renewable energy globally,
> >> and doubling the rate of improvement in energy efficiency by 2030.
> >>
> >> Poverty eradication, sustainable development and the transition away from
> >> fossil fuel energy go hand in hand.
> >>
> >> If those targets are met and similar efforts undertaken to*reduce
> >> deforestation*, then climate disaster can be avoided, said Joeri Rogelj of
> >> the<http://www.iac.ethz.ch/>   Institute for Atmospheric and Climate Science
> >> in Zurich  who headed the analysis published Sunday in the journal
> >> <http://www.nature.com/nclimate/index.html>  Nature Climate Change.
> >>
> >> "Poverty eradication, sustainable development and the transition away from
> >> fossil fuel energy go hand in hand," Rogelj told IPS.
> >>
> >> The U.N.<http://www.sustainableenergyforall.org/>  Sustainable Energy for
> >> All (SE4All)  initiative is ambitious, but brings a wide range of benefits
> >> including improvements in health, less air pollution and makes the
> >> all-important break from increasing fossil fuel energy use. The analysis
> >> shows the costs of SE4All is far less than the public subsidies the fossil
> >> fuel industry currently receives, he said.
> >>
> >> Nearly three billion people still use fire for cooking and heating. Of
> >> those, some 1.5 billion people have no access to electricity. For a billion
> >> more, their only access is to sporadic and unreliable electricity networks.
> >> Indoor air pollution from burning dung, charcoal, and wood for heating and
> >> cooking leads to nearly two million premature deaths of women and children
> >> every year, more than all the deaths from malaria and tuberculosis.
> >>
> >> Dirty fossil fuel energy is also a major health hazard in industrial
> >> countries, responsible for 50,000 to 100,000 premature deaths and 400
> >> billion dollars in health costs a year in the U.S. alone, said Mark Jacobson
> >> an energy expert at Stanford University in California.
> >>
> >> "In the European Union, it is 350,000 premature deaths a year," Jacobson
> >> told IPS.
> >>
> >> SE4All was first announced in 2009. "Energy interacts with all of the
> >> development challenges we face," Kandeh Yumkella, director-general of the
> >> United Nations Industrial Development Organisation
> >> <http://www.ipsnews.net/2009/06/development-green-energy-for-all-by-2030/>
> >> told IPS at the launch.
> >>
> >> Energy experts calculate that decentralised, off-grid technologies like
> >> wind, solar, geothermal and micro-hydro energy generation are the fastest
> >> and most cost effective solutions. Extending current electrical grids only
> >> makes economic sense to meet 15-20 percent of the need due to the high
> >> costs.
> >>
> >> SE4All is well under way now, with more than 50 developing countries working
> >> on national plans to achieve the three goals of universal access, increasing
> >> renewable energy, and doubling the rate of improvement in energy efficiency.
> >>
> >> Since 80 percent of human carbon dioxide emissions come from the global
> >> energy system, Rogelj and colleagues at the International Institute for
> >> Applied Systems Analysis in Laxenberg, Austria wanted to quantify the impact
> >> on the global climate.
> >>
> >> "Achieving the three SE4ALL objectives could put the world on a path towards
> >> global climate protection," they
> >> <http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate1806.html
> >>> conclude in their paper "The UN's 'Sustainable Energy for All' initiative
> >> is compatible with a warming limit of 2 ?C".
> >>
> >> "Doing energy right will promote the Millennium Development Goals, such as
> >> poverty eradication and social empowerment, and at the same time kick-start
> >> the transition to a lower-carbon economy," says IIASA researcher David
> >> McCollum, who also worked on the study.
> >>
> >> "But the U.N.'s objectives must be complemented by a global agreement on
> >> controlling greenhouse gas emissions."
> >>
> >> Even if the targets are achieved, explosive economic growth coupled with
> >> greater energy use will overwhelm the climate protection benefits of SE4All.
> >> "There is an explicit need for a global cap on emissions," said Rogelj .
> >>
> >> Global carbon emissions were about 52 gigatonnes (billion metric tonnes) in
> >> 2012 and that means fossil fuel energy use must decline so emissions are
> >> about 41-47 Gt by 2020 to have a reasonable chance of keeping global warming
> >> below two degrees C.
> >>
> >> The shift to green energy is under way. Every new megawatt added to the U.S.
> >> electricity supply in January came from renewables, and more than half of
> >> all new electricity generation in 2012 was also from renewables, not gas as
> >> often believed.
> >>
> >> Iceland has 81 percent renewable energy. Scotland has a mandate to achieve
> >> 100 percent renewable power supply by 2020. Denmark passed laws requiring
> >> that the whole energy supply - electricity, heating/cooling, and
> >> transportation - be met by renewable resources.
> >>
> >> Stanford's Jackobson, among others, have proposed detailed plans on how to
> >> meet 100 percent of the world's energy needs with green energy. Jacobson
> >> believes it could be done as soon as 2030.
> >>
> >> Costs for the SE4All plan are relatively modest at between 30 and 40 billion
> >> dollars a year, a fraction of the 523 billion dollars in subsides for dirty
> >> energy in 2011, according to the International Energy Agency. By 2030, 300
> >> billion dollars a year will be needed to bring electricity into every home
> >> on the planet and prevent catastrophic climate change.
> >>
> >> Fossil fuel emission reductions will have to continue after 2030 and
> >> eventually decline to near zero in order to stay below two degrees C, said
> >> Rogelj.
> >>
> >> - See more at:
> >> http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/02/green-energy-solves-dual-crises-of-poverty-and-climate/#sthash.bCVEtR8U.dpuf
> >>
> >>
> >
> > - - - - - - -
> > Robert Korol
> > Professor emeritus, Civil Engineering
> > McMaster University
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > End of Stoves Digest, Vol 31, Issue 1
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