[Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh link to conference?
Leslie Cordes
LCordes at unfoundation.org
Sun Mar 24 22:15:02 CDT 2013
www.cleancooking2013.org<http://www.cleancooking2013.org>
On Mar 23, 2013, at 4:51 AM, "scda2 at t-online.de<mailto:scda2 at t-online.de>" <scda2 at t-online.de<mailto:scda2 at t-online.de>> wrote:
Dear Stovers.
cant find the homepage of the conference with Google (Phnom Penh, smokeless kitchen, conference, march)?
Was in Phnom Penh a week ago, did not know this is a big and important conference....<sm11.png>
Thanks
Chris ADAM
scda2 at ymail.com<mailto:scda2 at ymail.com>
-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:01:44 +0100
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com<mailto:paul.olivier at esrla.com>>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
Kevin,
In the study on Water spinach, Chinese cabbage, Celery cabbage and Mustard greens, the starting pH was 5.8.
Where do you get this pH number of 4.5?
Paul
On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Kevin <kchisholm at ca.inter.net<mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
Dear Anand
The impressive yield improvement may have been due to neither the minerals nor the biochar, but simply as a result of pH adjustment by the ash content of the biochar. As I recall, the original "Control Soil" used in the Preston Report had a pH in the range of about 4.5, while the "biochar soil" with the maximum yield had a pH in the range of 7-7.5.
Best wishes,
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Anand Karve<mailto:adkarve at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Dear Paul, Ron and others,
I was instrumental in the development of an urban biogas plant, which does not use cattle dung but uses food waste as feedstock. One kg dry weight of starch, sugar, cellulose, protein or any other kind of human food produces about 1 kg biogas. My biogas plant could normally accept only 1gram (dry weight) food waste per litre capacity of digester. Our experiments in which the biogas digester was filled with charcoal made it possible to increase the quantity of food waste to three grams per litre, with three times as much biogas becoming available from the same plant. This worked for about three months and then the higher efficiency was no longer available. It is a common observation, that a biogas plant works better, if chemical fertilizers are added to the feedstock. I have been thinking about this and it appears to me that it was the minerals in the biochar, that were contributing to this phenomenon. After the organisms in the biogas plant had consumed the minerals, the higher efficiency was no longer available.
The same phenomenon might be responsible for the higher yield in fields provided with biochar.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com<mailto:paul.olivier at esrla.com>> wrote:
Kevin,
Thanks very much for your reflection. Toward the end, you raise the interesting question: which is worth more, biochar as a fuel or biochar as an agricultural product? Let me come down strongly in favor of biochar as an agricultural product. At the end of the same presentation, I ask the question: what is the value of biochar when cattle put on 25% more weight than those in the control group, when enteric methane emissions from the same cattle are reduced by 42%, when mustard greens grow at a rate 400% faster than the control group, or when the same mustard greens have 40% less fiber and 35% more protein? About 20 experiments were carried put with rice hull biochar from my gasifiers, and all indicated much higher plant and animal growth. How then do we put a value on biochar, when current prices for biochar do not yet reflect this new reality? If we burn biochar, all goes up in a puff of smoke. If we use biochar in agriculture, we use a lot less feed and a lot less fertilizer for the same end result, and the benefits stay with us a very long time.
We stand in urgent need for a lot more biochar studies in a lot more agricultural settings. What we are trying to do at the moment is to understand why biochar has such a dramatic effect when used in agriculture. Yes, we can point to its pore structure, to its surface area, to its cation and anion exchange capacities, to its pH and to its water-holding capacity. But these elements alone do not give a complete picture. Over 20 years ago, Japanese scientists were pointing out how biochar promotes the growth of abuscular mycorrhizal fungi. I have a strong suspicion that these scientists were leading us in the right direction. So in some of the next biochar studies that Dr. Preston will conduct, he will focus on how biochar promotes the growth of AM fungi.
Thanks.
Paul
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Kevin <kchisholm at ca.inter.net<mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
Dear Paul
Thanks very much for your very interesting slide Presentation on your Stove, and the explanation of "Rice Hull Biochar and Fuel Gas Production.Economics."
Basically, 1 kg of free rice hulls yields $US 0.24 worth of pyrolysis gas for heating and 350 grams of Rice Hull Biochar worth about $0.30 per kg, or say $ 0.10
A typical Vietnamese Family would consume about 1 MT of Rice Hulls per year, producing pyrolysis gas for cooking, worth about $240, and 350 kG of Biochar worth about $100, total $350 per year in the value of cooking energy + biochar sales per year.
If your #150 stove sold for $40, it could pay for itself in less than 1/2 year, with sales of biochar alone, the value of the pyrolysis gases for cooking would be the equivalent of about 1 bottle of LPG per month, ie, an additional $22 per month of "free money." If the use of the pyrolysis gas displaced the need to purchase 1 bottle of LPG per month, then total savings would be about $22 + $8 = $30 per month, and the stove would be paid for in less than 2 months. This indeed would be a very attractive money making investment for the family.
The method of financing the stoves that you propose is very attractive to the Typical Family, where a Charcoal Merchant would supply the stove to the Family, and they would pay for the stove with the charcoal they produced.
The above numbers indicate that, at $0.30 per kG, the char production sells for $300 per MT.. If this was the value of the char, when sold into the "Biochar market", what would be the value of the char when sold into the "Charcoal Fuel market"?, If the value of the char when sold into the "Biochar Market" was greater than its value when sold into the Charcoal Fuel Market, then it would get used as biochar, but if it had more value as Charcoal fuel, it would be advantageous to the Family to sell it into the fuel market.
it looks like you have a very attractive Stove Project!
Best wishes for every success!
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Olivier<mailto:paul.olivier at esrla.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Cc: biochar at yahoogroups.com<mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com> ; adrian at rocketworks.org<mailto:adrian at rocketworks.org> ; sonta at emerging.se<mailto:sonta at emerging.se> ; Ruben at ace.co.ls<mailto:Ruben at ace.co.ls> ; Priyadarshini Karve<mailto:pkarve at arti-india.org>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Kevin,
Biochar can have significant value even in poor countries. For example, here in Dalat rice hull biochar is used extensively as a soil amendment. If a poor household can produce one kg of biochar per day and sell it at a fair market price, this will cover the cost of the means to produce it in less than a year. A lot more money has to be devoted to biochar research in a variety of agricultural applications. Once farmers understand the value of biochar with respect to the specific plants or animals they grow, there will be a rush to produce it. The high-grade heat produced in making biochar can be used for cooking, and as a by-product of biochar production, it becomes available to the household free-of-charge. To waste this heat, as some propose to do, is incredibly short-sighted. The sale of biochar should be able to cover not only the cost of the biomass from which it was derived, but in time it should also cover the means to produce it. That is why I push hard against those who want to use biochar as a fuel.
Let us suppose that a gasifier costs $50 US dollars. Let us suppose that a household produces one kg of biochar per day at a value of only $0.20 US per kg. This represents an income of about $6.00 US dollars per month. In less than a year the cost of the gasifier is covered.
Here in Vietnam LPG sells for about $22 US dollars per bottle. Some households consume up to two bottles of LPG each month. This works out to a monthly fuel cost of $44 US dollars. This reliance on fossil fuels is killing and has to stop.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
Thanks.
Paul
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Kevin <kchisholm at ca.inter.net<mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
Dear Ron
Thanks for your very interesting report to date on "The Big Event."
I think that one thing that could be very helpful is a Graph showing " Stove Price" versus "Potential Customers." Clearly, if a person is earning say $1 per day, and the stove cost $70, this would be equivalent to 70 days income. Here in Canada, where the minimum wage is $10 per hour, or $80 per day, a stove costing 70 days income would cost $5,600.
Or, to look at it from the other direction, "What price would a stove have to sell for, so that 90% of the World's Population could afford to buy it"
Thanks!
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net<mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>
To: Discussion of biomass<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> ; biochar<mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Priyadarshini Karve<mailto:pkarve at arti-india.org> ; ,"paul anderson<mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu> ; Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<mailto:crispinpigott at gmail.com> ; Ruben at ace.co.ls<mailto:Ruben at ace.co.ls> ; adrian at rocketworks.org<mailto:adrian at rocketworks.org> ; sonta at emerging.se<mailto:sonta at emerging.se>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 11:19 AM
Subject: [biochar] First report from Phnom Penh
Hi to two lists (with 6 ccs)
1. This written at end of "first" day of conference. Actually the official first GACC day is tomorrow, but today was also the second day of pre-conference activities.. List members active on these two lists, here (and shown on the "to" list), who I hope will add more are Priya Karve, Paul Anderson and Crispin Pemberton-Piggott. I missed the first day - Sunday - returning from Siem Reap - home of Angkor Wat. This is definitely the most impressive world heritage site I have seen or could imagine. Uniformly impressed by the Cambodian people.
2. My overall impression is that very few attendees know much about biochar nor char-making stoves. Of course most everyone knows something about stoves - although I would guess that fewer than half have been involved for more than a year or t wo Heard tonight that there are 650 registrants. Great conference facilities; no conference registration fee and fair number of freebie meals, coffee-break treats etc.
3. My first surprise char-making stove encounter was with Sonta Kauti, a Zambian with "Emerging Cooking Solutions" - whose stove can be seen at www.emerging.se<http://www.emerging.se/>. I have not yet seen the actual stove, nor yet know its pricing - but plan more talks with Sonta
4. Next was a short encounter with Ruben Walker of "African Clean Energy" (see http://www.ace.co.ls/), now manufacturing in Lesotho the "Philips" fan stove developed by Paul van der Sluis (PvdS). This has been identified as having the best performance characteristics so far tested. This was my first chance to hold one - and it looks exceptionally well made. A surprise was the set of 10 or 12 (?) flat ceramic liner pieces for the interior (maybe 1 cm thick??).&nb sp; Presumably long life time - being non-metal. Ruben said one could hold the outside of the stove after an hour of cooking -possible because there are four concentric metal cylinders (three concentric air gaps). This stove is not char making - but I remember hearing that PvdS regularly operates it as a charcoal-maker. Cost in neighborhood of $70.
5. Later, at this evening's reception, Mr. Adrian Padt of "Rocket Works" introduced himself (see http://www.rocketworks.org/ - including photo of Adrian). This is the stove with the interesting heavy wire mesh exterior that we discussed a few months ago - also can be held. This also looked exceptionally well made and rugged. Cost in the neighborhood of $50. In addition to the version seen at the site, they are now adding a door to better control excess air.
6. I attended a day-long session put on by the World B ank and the Asian Development Bank.- the emphasis was on country organizations in this region. Crispin was on what I thought the best panel - on testing, etc. This is to hope that Priya, Paul, and Crispin (and anyone else from these lists here in Phnom Penh) will also add their early summary thoughts.
Any questions I/we can try to answer?
Ron
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Paul A. Olivier PhD
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Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
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Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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