[Stoves] The price of bottled gas
Otto Formo
terra-matricula at hotmail.com
Sun May 5 03:26:05 CDT 2013
Paul O,I second your statements fully, still comming from an oil and gas producing country.........:) We are "fortunate" to have access to those natural resources (fossil fuels), hydro and wind, but that does not mean we have to close our eyes and just leave it to "others" to solve their "own" problems or challanges........ "The "simplest" solution is most likely the best and most sustainable solution" "Short distance food and fuel", should be the goal and moto for all and everyone on this planet. Have a nice sunday! Otto
Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 14:20:04 +0700
From: paul.olivier at esrla.com
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] The price of bottled gas
Christina,
How available is natural gas in Guatemala? Is it not made available to the people by oil and gas companies? No doubt it takes an incredible infrastructure to make it available to them in bottled form.
I would imagine that Guatemala generates fairly important quantities of agricultural residues. Perhaps what you are really saying is that the infrastructure needed to make predictable biomass fuel available to the people of Guatemala is not yet in place. It is precisely such an infrastructure we should be working on.
Whenever and wherever possible, in rich or poor countries alike, we should look for every opportunity to replace bottled gas with syngas. Why burn non-renewable fossil fuels, especially when agricultural residues could be transformed into predictable fuels that are thoroughly renewable? Are we not concerned about global warming each time that we switch on a modern gas stove?
Thanks.
Paul Olivier
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Christina Espinosa <c_espinosa1 at u.pacific.edu> wrote:
In Guatemala, the current price to refill a 25 lb tank is $14 (no subsidy). A 10lb tank refill would cost $5.60. 5lb tanks are not permited in the market.
Every country is going to have a different market, regulations, etc....and not every country has an abundance of readily available biomass. Not every customer might want to produce char or have access to biomass. LPG is still an alternative for many families who only purchase wood.
Christina Espinosa
On Saturday, May 4, 2013, mtrevor wrote:
Just curious.
What size bottle costs USD $21.00
Here in the Marshall Islands the standard US 20 lbs
bottle is $37.50
and the small pressure cans in the stores run from
$0.96 up to $2.00 plus.
Michael N Ttvor
----- Original Message -----
From:
Paul
Olivier
To: Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves
Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2013 11:28
PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] The price of
bottled gas
Philip,
Here in Vietnam bottled gas costs more than $21.00
US per bottle. There is no distribution problem here at all. Some households
use up a bottle in less than one month. When the monthly wage is not more than
$120 US per month, the situation is extremely dire.
In many parts
of Vietnam, rice hulls and coffee husks are often dumped in rivers and
valleys. Sometimes they are uselessly burned as a means of disposal. With the
right type of stove, these agricultural residues put out a beautiful blue
flame that rivals that of bottled gas.
When we derive energy from
fossil fuels, there is nothing of value left behind. But when we gasify or
pyrolyze biomass, a valuable biochar remains. When incorporated into the soil,
biochar promotes plant growth and sequesters carbon.
Why derive energy
from fossil fuels when we can get it from renewable biomass?
Are you not,
in any way, concerned about global warming?
Thanks.
Paul
On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Philip Lloyd <plloyd at mweb.co.za> wrote:
Paul Oliver commented " The price of bottled gas is a huge
problem
throughout most of the
developing world."
Part of the
problem is poor models of distribution. Locally, we are seeing
the
entry of a supplier who a) has found a way of filling 5kg bottles
rapidly
at a central plant and b) distributing them directly to the retailer
at
minimal cost, with a growing chain of retailers chosen so that
the
householder can resupply within 500m. The net result is a
halving of the
street price of bottle gas, and it is now the cheapest way
to cook.
The advantage of filling at a central plant is that safety
is greatly
enhanced; and the discovery of a way of filling small
cylinders rapidly
means high throughput and low costs. Most big
bottlers of gas don't like
the really small cylinders because they
couldn't fill them rapidly enough to
get throughput - it was cheaper (and
far less safe) to refill them at the
retailers.
Regards to
all
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Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien
Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings
Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address:
Xpolivier
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School of International Studies
c_espinosa1 at u.pacific.edu
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Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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