[Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
Francesco Tortorici
francescot at gmail.com
Tue May 14 11:01:49 CDT 2013
Art,
Please have them contact me directly. We would be happy to share with them.
Francesco
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:50 AM, Art Donnelly <art.donnelly at seachar.org>wrote:
> Hi all,
> Francesco, that's a nice looking setup. SeaChar has a couple of volunteers
> (bi-lingual) in Costa Rica that want to do the same thing. Can we introduce
> them to your friends and set-up an information exchange?
> Also, I have attached a photo of our "in progress" TLUD heat exchanger. It
> will be used to dry cacao beans.
> Our goal is to make every BTU count.
> Art Donnelly
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:56 AM, <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Francesco Tortorici)
>> 2. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Tom Miles)
>> 3. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Nariphaltan)
>> 4. Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience sharing
>> (Tuong DoDuc)
>> 5. Re: Using all the energy when char making
>> (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
>> 6. Re: Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience
>> sharing (Paul Olivier)
>> 7. Re: Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience
>> sharing (Tuong DoDuc)
>> 8. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Nariphaltan)
>> 9. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Tom Miles)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 11:13:42 -0700
>> From: Francesco Tortorici <francescot at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAKiNAwXcz9yYu3Gh4=dbb8=
>> z-3QuWps6+yWtrCGmwu-A8oKZDQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> Here is an example of a local mushroom grower that uses a TLUD to
>> pasteurize straw. Previously he used propane, but now uses his gasifier
>> stove. The biochar produced is "charged" with worm castings and worm tea
>> that is also a "byproduct' of his mushroom business.
>>
>> This is an example of of having a need for the heat and the willingness to
>> try something different. His operation is small and located on the
>> Olympic Peninsula of Washington State.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Frank Shields <frank at compostlab.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > *Stovers,*
>> >
>> > * *
>> >
>> > * *
>> >
>> > *Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>> > making char that is just flared off. *
>> >
>> > *I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1)
>> a
>> > very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>> > generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.*
>> >
>> > * *
>> >
>> > *So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>> > Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the
>> gas
>> > need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine. *
>> >
>> > * *
>> >
>> > * *
>> >
>> > *Thanks*
>> >
>> > * *
>> >
>> > * *
>> >
>> > *Frank *
>> >
>> > * *
>> >
>> > * *
>> >
>> > Thanks ****
>> >
>> > ** **
>> >
>> > Frank Shields****
>> >
>> > ** **
>> >
>> > BioChar Division****
>> >
>> > Control Laboratories, Inc. ****
>> >
>> > 42 Hangar Way****
>> >
>> > Watsonville, CE 95076****
>> >
>> > ** **
>> >
>> > (831) 724-5422 tel****
>> >
>> > (81) 724-3188 fax****
>> >
>> > frank at biocharlab.com****
>> >
>> > www.controllabs.com****
>> >
>> > * *
>> >
>> > * *
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 11:20:14 -0700
>> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID: <013901ce5006$84200580$8c601080$@trmiles.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Frank,
>>
>>
>>
>> Direct combustion options include steam, Stirling engines, and organic
>> Rankine cycle (ORC) turbines. The challenge we have with these options is
>> cost, especially at the small scale. We did a recent comparison of the
>> feasibility at the 2 MWe scale and found that steam was the most cost
>> effective compared with ORC or Stirling.
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Frank Shields
>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 10:55 AM
>> To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
>> Subject: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>
>>
>>
>> Stovers,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when making
>> char that is just flared off.
>>
>> I'm thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>> generator
>> is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>
>>
>>
>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity? Perhaps
>> not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas need
>> not
>> be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank Shields
>>
>>
>>
>> BioChar Division
>>
>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>
>> 42 Hangar Way
>>
>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>
>>
>>
>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>
>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>
>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>
>> www.controllabs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 05:38:24 +0530
>> From: Nariphaltan <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID: <20FCC1E5-3350-4223-BC13-4091D9C20481 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Have a look at this "char making machine".
>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Stovers,
>> >
>> >
>> > Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>> making char that is just flared off.
>> > I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1)
>> a very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>> >
>> > So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas
>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Frank Shields
>> >
>> > BioChar Division
>> > Control Laboratories, Inc.
>> > 42 Hangar Way
>> > Watsonville, CE 95076
>> >
>> > (831) 724-5422 tel
>> > (81) 724-3188 fax
>> > frank at biocharlab.com
>> > www.controllabs.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/f0557ccc/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 08:23:23 +0700
>> From: Tuong DoDuc <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com>
>> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> Subject: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience
>> sharing
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAJaUSMNHfwozi-gjuzetBwKen0AAKQDLJPgRu916ejYW=
>> L7vuA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,
>>
>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model developed
>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.
>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M
>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire,
>> and
>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.
>>
>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan in
>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD (while
>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a
>> computer fan for 1.5USD)
>>
>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems to
>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.
>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs rigt
>> on top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire
>> burnt the fan.
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg
>>
>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot
>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the user.
>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the
>> tar). Not tried yet.
>>
>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal door.
>> We burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that
>> it is toxic.
>>
>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the
>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel
>> hopper.
>>
>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar work
>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can thus
>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Do Duc Tuong,
>>
>> Renewable Energy Advisor
>> SNV Vietnam
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 02:55:28 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, Biochar-production
>> <Biochar-production at yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> 1707234733.1840621.1368500128336.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net
>> >
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"
>>
>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions
>>
>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently with
>> this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one now buy
>> such hardware?
>>
>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?
>>
>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "... .can be used as a soil
>> conditioner ." This would have been very early in the history of what we
>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?
>>
>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you
>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?
>>
>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design - ahead
>> of its time..
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>
>>
>> Have a look at this "char making machine".
>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>>
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" < frank at compostlab.com >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Stovers,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>> making char that is just flared off.
>>
>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>
>>
>>
>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas
>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank Shields
>>
>>
>>
>> BioChar Division
>>
>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>
>> 42 Hangar Way
>>
>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>
>>
>>
>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>
>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>
>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>
>> www.controllabs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <blockquote>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>> </blockquote>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 10:12:56 +0700
>> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale -
>> experience sharing
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAOreFvYL5d29-W4JdwJ9BHOmkkyzh2oDNKM-wp37xgGCbRhtBQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> The moment one goes from batch to continuous, the process gets really
>> complicated. Nothing beats the simplicity of a static batch reactor.
>> It provides ideal gasification conditions. The problem regarding the
>> length of the batch cycle can be overcome if the fuel is densified. If
>> the reactor is filled with pellets, the length of the cycle can be
>> extended to well over five hours. Imagine: for a five full hours, the
>> operator does not have to intervene. There is no loading of rice hulls
>> or scrapping out of biochar during this entire period.
>>
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
>> The time to empty, reload and relight a batch reactor is less than one
>> minute.
>> Several reactor tubes can be operated at the same time.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Paul Olivier
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Tuong DoDuc
>> <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com> wrote:
>> > Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,
>> >
>> > The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model
>> developed
>> > by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.
>> > Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M
>> > We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire,
>> and
>> > easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.
>> >
>> > We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan
>> in
>> > Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD
>> (while
>> > to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a
>> > computer fan for 1.5USD)
>> >
>> > However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems
>> to
>> > fully control the fire and ease the operation.
>> > 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs
>> rigt on
>> > top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire
>> burnt
>> > the fan.
>> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg
>> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg
>> >
>> > 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot
>> > bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the
>> user.
>> > An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the
>> tar).
>> > Not tried yet.
>> >
>> > 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal
>> door. We
>> > burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that
>> it
>> > is toxic.
>> >
>> > 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the
>> > gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel
>> > hopper.
>> >
>> > By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar work
>> > with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can thus
>> > reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > Do Duc Tuong,
>> >
>> > Renewable Energy Advisor
>> > SNV Vietnam
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 18:03:54 +0700
>> From: Tuong DoDuc <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale -
>> experience sharing
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAJaUSMON7XTbFRSgU5Q-Nv9j8pqFa2uyFvakoBN2QqLVthp+pw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Thanks Paul Oliver,
>>
>> I went through your presentation several times before.
>> I must say that It is very convincing and inspiring as well.
>>
>> Regarding the continous feed concept, I think it is a trade-off.
>> One one side, we will tell the users all the pros anc cons and let them
>> decide to choose what they like.
>> In this case, we will leave several different options for the users by a
>> field test of different gasifier models.
>> The user will tell. At this development stage of the continuous gasifier,
>> I
>> can't tell which (batch or continuous) suits the user most. Especially,
>> there is no one-size-fits-all solution
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Tuong
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > The moment one goes from batch to continuous, the process gets really
>> > complicated. Nothing beats the simplicity of a static batch reactor.
>> > It provides ideal gasification conditions. The problem regarding the
>> > length of the batch cycle can be overcome if the fuel is densified. If
>> > the reactor is filled with pellets, the length of the cycle can be
>> > extended to well over five hours. Imagine: for a five full hours, the
>> > operator does not have to intervene. There is no loading of rice hulls
>> > or scrapping out of biochar during this entire period.
>> >
>> >
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
>> > The time to empty, reload and relight a batch reactor is less than one
>> > minute.
>> > Several reactor tubes can be operated at the same time.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> > Paul Olivier
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Tuong DoDuc
>> > <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com> wrote:
>> > > Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,
>> > >
>> > > The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model
>> > developed
>> > > by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.
>> > > Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M
>> > > We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the
>> fire,
>> > and
>> > > easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.
>> > >
>> > > We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular
>> fan in
>> > > Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD
>> > (while
>> > > to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and
>> a
>> > > computer fan for 1.5USD)
>> > >
>> > > However, this is just our first step and we still have so many
>> problems
>> > to
>> > > fully control the fire and ease the operation.
>> > > 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs
>> > rigt on
>> > > top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire
>> > burnt
>> > > the fan.
>> > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg
>> > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg
>> > >
>> > > 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on
>> pot
>> > > bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the
>> > user.
>> > > An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the
>> > tar).
>> > > Not tried yet.
>> > >
>> > > 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal
>> > door. We
>> > > burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care)
>> that
>> > it
>> > > is toxic.
>> > >
>> > > 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the
>> > > gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel
>> > > hopper.
>> > >
>> > > By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar
>> work
>> > > with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can
>> thus
>> > > reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.
>> > >
>> > > Best regards,
>> > >
>> > > Do Duc Tuong,
>> > >
>> > > Renewable Energy Advisor
>> > > SNV Vietnam
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Stoves mailing list
>> > >
>> > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> > >
>> > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> > >
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> > >
>> > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>> > Dalat
>> > Vietnam
>> >
>> > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> > Skype address: Xpolivier
>> > http://www.esrla.com/
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/9182fc38/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 16:39:47 +0530
>> From: Nariphaltan <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>> To: "rongretlarson at comcast.net" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
>> Cc: Biochar-production <Biochar-production at yahoogroups.com>,
>> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID: <B08F79A0-7233-4B92-A188-A7C5BA79BB21 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dear Ron,
>>
>> Thanks for your mail. We did this work when very few people were
>> interested in loose leafy gasifier. It was designed so that the flow is
>> smooth and hence the best strategy was to pyrolyse the biomass rather than
>> gasify it. In the process we also generated 25% char (w/w feed basis).
>> Since we are an agricultural research Institute hence we thought of using
>> this char as a soil conditioner. This was in 1990-1992. Because of the
>> pioneer nature of this work the gasifier together with the char in the
>> field was on cover of International Journal of Biomass Energy (David Hall
>> used to be the editor of the Journal).
>>
>> Why we left this work? This is a long story but we moved on to other
>> things and partly because no body was interested in the biomass research at
>> that time.
>>
>> Still I think Our work can be inspiration to lots of people.
>>
>> All the best.
>>
>> Anil
>>
>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14-May-2013, at 8:25 AM, rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> > Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"
>> >
>> > Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions
>> >
>> > a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently
>> with this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one
>> now buy such hardware?
>> >
>> > b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?
>> >
>> > c. In the Abstract, you said the char "....can be used as a soil
>> conditioner." This would have been very early in the history of what we
>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?
>> >
>> > d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you
>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?
>> >
>> > Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design
>> - ahead of its time..
>> >
>> > Ron
>> >
>> > From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>> > To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> > Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> >
>> > Have a look at this "char making machine".
>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>> >
>> > Cheers.
>> >
>> > Anil K Rajvanshi
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Stovers,
>> >
>> >
>> > Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>> making char that is just flared off.
>> > I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1)
>> a very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>> >
>> > So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas
>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> >
>> > Frank
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Frank Shields
>> >
>> > BioChar Division
>> > Control Laboratories, Inc.
>> > 42 Hangar Way
>> > Watsonville, CE 95076
>> >
>> > (831) 724-5422 tel
>> > (81) 724-3188 fax
>> > frank at biocharlab.com
>> > www.controllabs.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/88a3f211/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 07:56:44 -0700
>> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, <
>> rongretlarson at comcast.net>
>> Cc: 'Biochar-production' <Biochar-production at yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID: <00a301ce50b3$40e683e0$c2b38ba0$@trmiles.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Anil,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for bringing this out.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the time (1975-1995) there were efforts to convert straws and crop
>> residues to energy, particularly in France (at AFME, CEMAGREF, Pillard,
>> etc.). In most cases the char was considered a potential domestic fuel
>> rather than for agriculture. European demand for charcoal was high. French
>> wood pyrolysis and gasification plants were still in operation and in
>> development. (The downdraft gasifier that we associate with Hitler was
>> invented in France in the 1930s.)
>>
>>
>>
>> As you remember David Hall made a concerted effort to improve
>> carbonization and energy systems in agriculture.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf
>> Of Nariphaltan
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 4:10 AM
>> To: rongretlarson at comcast.net
>> Cc: Biochar-production; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Ron,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your mail. We did this work when very few people were
>> interested in loose leafy gasifier. It was designed so that the flow is
>> smooth and hence the best strategy was to pyrolyse the biomass rather than
>> gasify it. In the process we also generated 25% char (w/w feed basis).
>> Since we are an agricultural research Institute hence we thought of using
>> this char as a soil conditioner. This was in 1990-1992. Because of the
>> pioneer nature of this work the gasifier together with the char in the
>> field was on cover of International Journal of Biomass Energy (David Hall
>> used to be the editor of the Journal).
>>
>>
>>
>> Why we left this work? This is a long story but we moved on to other
>> things and partly because no body was interested in the biomass research at
>> that time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Still I think Our work can be inspiration to lots of people.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anil
>>
>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14-May-2013, at 8:25 AM, rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"
>>
>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions
>>
>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently with
>> this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one now buy
>> such hardware?
>>
>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?
>>
>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "....can be used as a soil
>> conditioner." This would have been very early in the history of what we
>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?
>>
>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you
>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?
>>
>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design -
>> ahead of its time..
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>
>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>
>> Have a look at this "char making machine".
>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Stovers,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>> making char that is just flared off.
>>
>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>
>>
>>
>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas
>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank Shields
>>
>>
>>
>> BioChar Division
>>
>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>
>> 42 Hangar Way
>>
>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>
>>
>>
>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>
>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>
>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>
>> www.controllabs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
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>>
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 18
>> **************************************
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Art Donnelly
> President SeaChar.Org
> US Director, The Farm Stove Project
> Proyecto Estufa Finca
>
> <http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2eaJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsUU5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9SKkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfeifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpDpyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlMSqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoyAXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji73zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUliWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0>
> "SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>
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