[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 19
Thomas Reed
tombreed2010 at gmail.com
Tue May 14 22:54:30 CDT 2013
Dear Gasologist
We should all distinguish clearly when discussing gasification between
O Total gasification (eg an Imbert gasifier) that converts typically 98% ot the wood to WoodGas
O Pyrolytic Gasification (TLUD and larger) which primarily gasifies the cellulose and pyrolyses the lignin to ~20% charcoal
<><><>
The smoke from a TLUD stove will leave a deposit on a cold steel plate. I was interested in finding out how much "tar" was in the TLUD combustible gas before it is burned.
I measured the "tar" production from a TLUD stove by putting a 4" galvanized elbow (wrapped in wetted towels) in the stove, and a 4 ft length of galvanized pipe followed by another elbow and chimney.
Instead of the tarry deposit I expected, I obtained about 1% of a brown powdery deposit that was quite dry to the touch.
I now wish I had saved it and analyzed it further. But I suspect a similar experiment on the Imbert gas would give a much higher "Tar" content, originating mostly from the lignin.
<><><>
The charcoal resulting from the TLUD is generally a bonus, depending whether you have a use for it. The temperature of the flaming pyrolysis below the surface of the TLUD stove is between 500 and 700 C (measured with a Cr-Al thermocouple). For this reason, the charcoal produced is much more absorptive than commercial (<450 C) charcoal.
This spring I am doing some planting tests on TLUD charcoal vs commercial charcoal. I'll report results.
Onward to the future of charcoal...
Tom Reed
Dr. Thomas B Reed
Tombreed2010 at gmail.com
508-353-7841
On May 14, 2013, at 11:00 AM, stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Using all the energy when char making (Art Donnelly)
> 2. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Francesco Tortorici)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 09:50:30 -0600
> From: Art Donnelly <art.donnelly at seachar.org>
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
> Message-ID:
> <CALyHvqpKvNNZg8VoS2QmGq4R3UUSi6UKC1wNuxpuq2oe_deg-w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi all,
> Francesco, that's a nice looking setup. SeaChar has a couple of volunteers
> (bi-lingual) in Costa Rica that want to do the same thing. Can we introduce
> them to your friends and set-up an information exchange?
> Also, I have attached a photo of our "in progress" TLUD heat exchanger. It
> will be used to dry cacao beans.
> Our goal is to make every BTU count.
> Art Donnelly
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:56 AM, <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:
>
>> Send Stoves mailing list submissions to
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> stoves-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Francesco Tortorici)
>> 2. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Tom Miles)
>> 3. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Nariphaltan)
>> 4. Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience sharing
>> (Tuong DoDuc)
>> 5. Re: Using all the energy when char making
>> (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
>> 6. Re: Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience
>> sharing (Paul Olivier)
>> 7. Re: Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience
>> sharing (Tuong DoDuc)
>> 8. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Nariphaltan)
>> 9. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Tom Miles)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 11:13:42 -0700
>> From: Francesco Tortorici <francescot at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAKiNAwXcz9yYu3Gh4=dbb8=
>> z-3QuWps6+yWtrCGmwu-A8oKZDQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> Here is an example of a local mushroom grower that uses a TLUD to
>> pasteurize straw. Previously he used propane, but now uses his gasifier
>> stove. The biochar produced is "charged" with worm castings and worm tea
>> that is also a "byproduct' of his mushroom business.
>>
>> This is an example of of having a need for the heat and the willingness to
>> try something different. His operation is small and located on the
>> Olympic Peninsula of Washington State.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Frank Shields <frank at compostlab.com
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> *Stovers,*
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> *Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>>> making char that is just flared off. *
>>>
>>> *I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.*
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> *So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the
>> gas
>>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine. *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> *Thanks*
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> *Frank *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> Thanks ****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Frank Shields****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> BioChar Division****
>>>
>>> Control Laboratories, Inc. ****
>>>
>>> 42 Hangar Way****
>>>
>>> Watsonville, CE 95076****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> (831) 724-5422 tel****
>>>
>>> (81) 724-3188 fax****
>>>
>>> frank at biocharlab.com****
>>>
>>> www.controllabs.com****
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
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>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 11:20:14 -0700
>> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID: <013901ce5006$84200580$8c601080$@trmiles.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Frank,
>>
>>
>>
>> Direct combustion options include steam, Stirling engines, and organic
>> Rankine cycle (ORC) turbines. The challenge we have with these options is
>> cost, especially at the small scale. We did a recent comparison of the
>> feasibility at the 2 MWe scale and found that steam was the most cost
>> effective compared with ORC or Stirling.
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
>> Frank Shields
>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 10:55 AM
>> To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
>> Subject: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>
>>
>>
>> Stovers,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when making
>> char that is just flared off.
>>
>> I'm thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>> generator
>> is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>
>>
>>
>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity? Perhaps
>> not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas need not
>> be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank Shields
>>
>>
>>
>> BioChar Division
>>
>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>
>> 42 Hangar Way
>>
>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>
>>
>>
>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>
>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>
>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>
>> www.controllabs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130513/e13357fe/attachment-0001.html
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 05:38:24 +0530
>> From: Nariphaltan <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID: <20FCC1E5-3350-4223-BC13-4091D9C20481 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Have a look at this "char making machine".
>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Stovers,
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>> making char that is just flared off.
>>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>>
>>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas
>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Frank Shields
>>>
>>> BioChar Division
>>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>> 42 Hangar Way
>>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>>
>>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>> www.controllabs.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/f0557ccc/attachment-0001.html
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 08:23:23 +0700
>> From: Tuong DoDuc <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com>
>> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> Subject: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience
>> sharing
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAJaUSMNHfwozi-gjuzetBwKen0AAKQDLJPgRu916ejYW=
>> L7vuA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,
>>
>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model developed
>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.
>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M
>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire, and
>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.
>>
>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan in
>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD (while
>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a
>> computer fan for 1.5USD)
>>
>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems to
>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.
>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs rigt
>> on top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire
>> burnt the fan.
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg
>>
>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot
>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the user.
>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the
>> tar). Not tried yet.
>>
>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal door.
>> We burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that
>> it is toxic.
>>
>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the
>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel
>> hopper.
>>
>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar work
>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can thus
>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Do Duc Tuong,
>>
>> Renewable Energy Advisor
>> SNV Vietnam
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 02:55:28 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, Biochar-production
>> <Biochar-production at yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> 1707234733.1840621.1368500128336.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"
>>
>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions
>>
>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently with
>> this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one now buy
>> such hardware?
>>
>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?
>>
>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "... .can be used as a soil
>> conditioner ." This would have been very early in the history of what we
>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?
>>
>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you
>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?
>>
>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design - ahead
>> of its time..
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>
>>
>> Have a look at this "char making machine".
>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>>
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" < frank at compostlab.com >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Stovers,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when making
>> char that is just flared off.
>>
>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>
>>
>>
>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity? Perhaps
>> not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas need not
>> be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank Shields
>>
>>
>>
>> BioChar Division
>>
>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>
>> 42 Hangar Way
>>
>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>
>>
>>
>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>
>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>
>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>
>> www.controllabs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <blockquote>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>> </blockquote>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 10:12:56 +0700
>> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale -
>> experience sharing
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAOreFvYL5d29-W4JdwJ9BHOmkkyzh2oDNKM-wp37xgGCbRhtBQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> The moment one goes from batch to continuous, the process gets really
>> complicated. Nothing beats the simplicity of a static batch reactor.
>> It provides ideal gasification conditions. The problem regarding the
>> length of the batch cycle can be overcome if the fuel is densified. If
>> the reactor is filled with pellets, the length of the cycle can be
>> extended to well over five hours. Imagine: for a five full hours, the
>> operator does not have to intervene. There is no loading of rice hulls
>> or scrapping out of biochar during this entire period.
>>
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
>> The time to empty, reload and relight a batch reactor is less than one
>> minute.
>> Several reactor tubes can be operated at the same time.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Paul Olivier
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Tuong DoDuc
>> <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,
>>>
>>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model
>> developed
>>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.
>>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M
>>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire,
>> and
>>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.
>>>
>>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan in
>>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD
>> (while
>>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a
>>> computer fan for 1.5USD)
>>>
>>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems
>> to
>>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.
>>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs
>> rigt on
>>> top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire
>> burnt
>>> the fan.
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg
>>>
>>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot
>>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the
>> user.
>>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the
>> tar).
>>> Not tried yet.
>>>
>>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal
>> door. We
>>> burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that
>> it
>>> is toxic.
>>>
>>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the
>>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel
>>> hopper.
>>>
>>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar work
>>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can thus
>>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Do Duc Tuong,
>>>
>>> Renewable Energy Advisor
>>> SNV Vietnam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 18:03:54 +0700
>> From: Tuong DoDuc <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale -
>> experience sharing
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAJaUSMON7XTbFRSgU5Q-Nv9j8pqFa2uyFvakoBN2QqLVthp+pw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Thanks Paul Oliver,
>>
>> I went through your presentation several times before.
>> I must say that It is very convincing and inspiring as well.
>>
>> Regarding the continous feed concept, I think it is a trade-off.
>> One one side, we will tell the users all the pros anc cons and let them
>> decide to choose what they like.
>> In this case, we will leave several different options for the users by a
>> field test of different gasifier models.
>> The user will tell. At this development stage of the continuous gasifier, I
>> can't tell which (batch or continuous) suits the user most. Especially,
>> there is no one-size-fits-all solution
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Tuong
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> The moment one goes from batch to continuous, the process gets really
>>> complicated. Nothing beats the simplicity of a static batch reactor.
>>> It provides ideal gasification conditions. The problem regarding the
>>> length of the batch cycle can be overcome if the fuel is densified. If
>>> the reactor is filled with pellets, the length of the cycle can be
>>> extended to well over five hours. Imagine: for a five full hours, the
>>> operator does not have to intervene. There is no loading of rice hulls
>>> or scrapping out of biochar during this entire period.
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
>>> The time to empty, reload and relight a batch reactor is less than one
>>> minute.
>>> Several reactor tubes can be operated at the same time.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Paul Olivier
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Tuong DoDuc
>>> <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,
>>>>
>>>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model
>>> developed
>>>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.
>>>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M
>>>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire,
>>> and
>>>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.
>>>>
>>>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan
>> in
>>>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD
>>> (while
>>>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a
>>>> computer fan for 1.5USD)
>>>>
>>>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems
>>> to
>>>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.
>>>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs
>>> rigt on
>>>> top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire
>>> burnt
>>>> the fan.
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg
>>>>
>>>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot
>>>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the
>>> user.
>>>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the
>>> tar).
>>>> Not tried yet.
>>>>
>>>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal
>>> door. We
>>>> burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that
>>> it
>>>> is toxic.
>>>>
>>>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the
>>>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel
>>>> hopper.
>>>>
>>>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar
>> work
>>>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can
>> thus
>>>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Do Duc Tuong,
>>>>
>>>> Renewable Energy Advisor
>>>> SNV Vietnam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>>> Dalat
>>> Vietnam
>>>
>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/9182fc38/attachment-0001.html
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 16:39:47 +0530
>> From: Nariphaltan <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>> To: "rongretlarson at comcast.net" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
>> Cc: Biochar-production <Biochar-production at yahoogroups.com>,
>> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID: <B08F79A0-7233-4B92-A188-A7C5BA79BB21 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dear Ron,
>>
>> Thanks for your mail. We did this work when very few people were
>> interested in loose leafy gasifier. It was designed so that the flow is
>> smooth and hence the best strategy was to pyrolyse the biomass rather than
>> gasify it. In the process we also generated 25% char (w/w feed basis).
>> Since we are an agricultural research Institute hence we thought of using
>> this char as a soil conditioner. This was in 1990-1992. Because of the
>> pioneer nature of this work the gasifier together with the char in the
>> field was on cover of International Journal of Biomass Energy (David Hall
>> used to be the editor of the Journal).
>>
>> Why we left this work? This is a long story but we moved on to other
>> things and partly because no body was interested in the biomass research at
>> that time.
>>
>> Still I think Our work can be inspiration to lots of people.
>>
>> All the best.
>>
>> Anil
>>
>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14-May-2013, at 8:25 AM, rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"
>>>
>>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions
>>>
>>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently
>> with this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one
>> now buy such hardware?
>>>
>>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?
>>>
>>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "....can be used as a soil
>> conditioner." This would have been very early in the history of what we
>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?
>>>
>>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you
>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?
>>>
>>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design -
>> ahead of its time..
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>>
>>> Have a look at this "char making machine".
>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Stovers,
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>> making char that is just flared off.
>>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>>
>>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas
>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Frank Shields
>>>
>>> BioChar Division
>>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>> 42 Hangar Way
>>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>>
>>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>> www.controllabs.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/88a3f211/attachment-0001.html
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 07:56:44 -0700
>> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, <rongretlarson at comcast.net
>> Cc: 'Biochar-production' <Biochar-production at yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>> Message-ID: <00a301ce50b3$40e683e0$c2b38ba0$@trmiles.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Anil,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for bringing this out.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the time (1975-1995) there were efforts to convert straws and crop
>> residues to energy, particularly in France (at AFME, CEMAGREF, Pillard,
>> etc.). In most cases the char was considered a potential domestic fuel
>> rather than for agriculture. European demand for charcoal was high. French
>> wood pyrolysis and gasification plants were still in operation and in
>> development. (The downdraft gasifier that we associate with Hitler was
>> invented in France in the 1930s.)
>>
>>
>>
>> As you remember David Hall made a concerted effort to improve
>> carbonization and energy systems in agriculture.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf
>> Of Nariphaltan
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 4:10 AM
>> To: rongretlarson at comcast.net
>> Cc: Biochar-production; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Ron,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your mail. We did this work when very few people were
>> interested in loose leafy gasifier. It was designed so that the flow is
>> smooth and hence the best strategy was to pyrolyse the biomass rather than
>> gasify it. In the process we also generated 25% char (w/w feed basis).
>> Since we are an agricultural research Institute hence we thought of using
>> this char as a soil conditioner. This was in 1990-1992. Because of the
>> pioneer nature of this work the gasifier together with the char in the
>> field was on cover of International Journal of Biomass Energy (David Hall
>> used to be the editor of the Journal).
>>
>>
>>
>> Why we left this work? This is a long story but we moved on to other
>> things and partly because no body was interested in the biomass research at
>> that time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Still I think Our work can be inspiration to lots of people.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anil
>>
>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14-May-2013, at 8:25 AM, rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"
>>
>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions
>>
>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently with
>> this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one now buy
>> such hardware?
>>
>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?
>>
>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "....can be used as a soil
>> conditioner." This would have been very early in the history of what we
>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?
>>
>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you
>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?
>>
>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design -
>> ahead of its time..
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>
>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>
>> Have a look at this "char making machine".
>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com> wrote:
>>
>> Stovers,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when making
>> char that is just flared off.
>>
>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>
>>
>>
>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity? Perhaps
>> not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas need not
>> be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank Shields
>>
>>
>>
>> BioChar Division
>>
>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>
>> 42 Hangar Way
>>
>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>
>>
>>
>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>
>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>
>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>
>> www.controllabs.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/67811ee2/attachment.html
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 18
>> **************************************
>
>
>
> --
> Art Donnelly
> President SeaChar.Org
> US Director, The Farm Stove Project
> Proyecto Estufa Finca
> <http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2eaJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsUU5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9SKkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfeifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpDpyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlMSqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoyAXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji73zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUliWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0>
> "SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 09:01:49 -0700
> From: Francesco Tortorici <francescot at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
> Message-ID:
> <CAKiNAwVCYO6tYH8xk+5YsTrKsbbRSnskHgsduSZq2k7Sx1az+A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Art,
>
> Please have them contact me directly. We would be happy to share with them.
> Francesco
>
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:50 AM, Art Donnelly <art.donnelly at seachar.org>wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Francesco, that's a nice looking setup. SeaChar has a couple of volunteers
>> (bi-lingual) in Costa Rica that want to do the same thing. Can we introduce
>> them to your friends and set-up an information exchange?
>> Also, I have attached a photo of our "in progress" TLUD heat exchanger. It
>> will be used to dry cacao beans.
>> Our goal is to make every BTU count.
>> Art Donnelly
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:56 AM, <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:
>>
>>> Send Stoves mailing list submissions to
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> stoves-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Francesco Tortorici)
>>> 2. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Tom Miles)
>>> 3. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Nariphaltan)
>>> 4. Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience sharing
>>> (Tuong DoDuc)
>>> 5. Re: Using all the energy when char making
>>> (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
>>> 6. Re: Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience
>>> sharing (Paul Olivier)
>>> 7. Re: Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience
>>> sharing (Tuong DoDuc)
>>> 8. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Nariphaltan)
>>> 9. Re: Using all the energy when char making (Tom Miles)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 11:13:42 -0700
>>> From: Francesco Tortorici <francescot at gmail.com>
>>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <CAKiNAwXcz9yYu3Gh4=dbb8=
>>> z-3QuWps6+yWtrCGmwu-A8oKZDQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>>
>>> Here is an example of a local mushroom grower that uses a TLUD to
>>> pasteurize straw. Previously he used propane, but now uses his gasifier
>>> stove. The biochar produced is "charged" with worm castings and worm tea
>>> that is also a "byproduct' of his mushroom business.
>>>
>>> This is an example of of having a need for the heat and the willingness to
>>> try something different. His operation is small and located on the
>>> Olympic Peninsula of Washington State.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Frank Shields <frank at compostlab.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> *Stovers,*
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> *Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>>>> making char that is just flared off. *
>>>>
>>>> *I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1)
>>> a
>>>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>>>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.*
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> *So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>>>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the
>>> gas
>>>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine. *
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> *Thanks*
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> *Frank *
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> Thanks ****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> Frank Shields****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> BioChar Division****
>>>>
>>>> Control Laboratories, Inc. ****
>>>>
>>>> 42 Hangar Way****
>>>>
>>>> Watsonville, CE 95076****
>>>>
>>>> ** **
>>>>
>>>> (831) 724-5422 tel****
>>>>
>>>> (81) 724-3188 fax****
>>>>
>>>> frank at biocharlab.com****
>>>>
>>>> www.controllabs.com****
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 11:20:14 -0700
>>> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
>>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
>>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>> Message-ID: <013901ce5006$84200580$8c601080$@trmiles.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Frank,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Direct combustion options include steam, Stirling engines, and organic
>>> Rankine cycle (ORC) turbines. The challenge we have with these options is
>>> cost, especially at the small scale. We did a recent comparison of the
>>> feasibility at the 2 MWe scale and found that steam was the most cost
>>> effective compared with ORC or Stirling.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>> Frank Shields
>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 10:55 AM
>>> To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
>>> Subject: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stovers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when making
>>> char that is just flared off.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>>> generator
>>> is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity? Perhaps
>>> not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas need
>>> not
>>> be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank Shields
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> BioChar Division
>>>
>>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>>
>>> 42 Hangar Way
>>>
>>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>>
>>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>>
>>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>>
>>> www.controllabs.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 05:38:24 +0530
>>> From: Nariphaltan <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>> Message-ID: <20FCC1E5-3350-4223-BC13-4091D9C20481 at gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Have a look at this "char making machine".
>>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stovers,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>>> making char that is just flared off.
>>>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1)
>>> a very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>>>
>>>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas
>>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frank
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Frank Shields
>>>>
>>>> BioChar Division
>>>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>>> 42 Hangar Way
>>>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>>>
>>>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>>> www.controllabs.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/f0557ccc/attachment-0001.html
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 08:23:23 +0700
>>> From: Tuong DoDuc <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com>
>>> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>> Subject: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale - experience
>>> sharing
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <CAJaUSMNHfwozi-gjuzetBwKen0AAKQDLJPgRu916ejYW=
>>> L7vuA at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,
>>>
>>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model developed
>>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.
>>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M
>>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire,
>>> and
>>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.
>>>
>>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan in
>>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD (while
>>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a
>>> computer fan for 1.5USD)
>>>
>>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems to
>>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.
>>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs rigt
>>> on top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire
>>> burnt the fan.
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg
>>>
>>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot
>>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the user.
>>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the
>>> tar). Not tried yet.
>>>
>>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal door.
>>> We burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that
>>> it is toxic.
>>>
>>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the
>>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel
>>> hopper.
>>>
>>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar work
>>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can thus
>>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Do Duc Tuong,
>>>
>>> Renewable Energy Advisor
>>> SNV Vietnam
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/a58467e3/attachment-0001.html
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 02:55:28 +0000 (UTC)
>>> From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
>>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, Biochar-production
>>> <Biochar-production at yahoogroups.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <
>>> 1707234733.1840621.1368500128336.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"
>>>
>>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions
>>>
>>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently with
>>> this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one now buy
>>> such hardware?
>>>
>>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?
>>>
>>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "... .can be used as a soil
>>> conditioner ." This would have been very early in the history of what we
>>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?
>>>
>>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you
>>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?
>>>
>>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design - ahead
>>> of its time..
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>>
>>>
>>> Have a look at this "char making machine".
>>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" < frank at compostlab.com >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stovers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>>> making char that is just flared off.
>>>
>>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas
>>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank Shields
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> BioChar Division
>>>
>>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>>
>>> 42 Hangar Way
>>>
>>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>>
>>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>>
>>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>>
>>> www.controllabs.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <blockquote>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> </blockquote>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/6088e3b2/attachment-0001.html
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 10:12:56 +0700
>>> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale -
>>> experience sharing
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <
>>> CAOreFvYL5d29-W4JdwJ9BHOmkkyzh2oDNKM-wp37xgGCbRhtBQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> The moment one goes from batch to continuous, the process gets really
>>> complicated. Nothing beats the simplicity of a static batch reactor.
>>> It provides ideal gasification conditions. The problem regarding the
>>> length of the batch cycle can be overcome if the fuel is densified. If
>>> the reactor is filled with pellets, the length of the cycle can be
>>> extended to well over five hours. Imagine: for a five full hours, the
>>> operator does not have to intervene. There is no loading of rice hulls
>>> or scrapping out of biochar during this entire period.
>>>
>>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
>>> The time to empty, reload and relight a batch reactor is less than one
>>> minute.
>>> Several reactor tubes can be operated at the same time.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Paul Olivier
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Tuong DoDuc
>>> <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,
>>>>
>>>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model
>>> developed
>>>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.
>>>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M
>>>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the fire,
>>> and
>>>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.
>>>>
>>>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular fan
>>> in
>>>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD
>>> (while
>>>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and a
>>>> computer fan for 1.5USD)
>>>>
>>>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many problems
>>> to
>>>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.
>>>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs
>>> rigt on
>>>> top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire
>>> burnt
>>>> the fan.
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg
>>>>
>>>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on pot
>>>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the
>>> user.
>>>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the
>>> tar).
>>>> Not tried yet.
>>>>
>>>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal
>>> door. We
>>>> burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care) that
>>> it
>>>> is toxic.
>>>>
>>>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the
>>>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel
>>>> hopper.
>>>>
>>>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar work
>>>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can thus
>>>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Do Duc Tuong,
>>>>
>>>> Renewable Energy Advisor
>>>> SNV Vietnam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>>> Dalat
>>> Vietnam
>>>
>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 7
>>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 18:03:54 +0700
>>> From: Tuong DoDuc <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com>
>>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Continuous gasifier for household scale -
>>> experience sharing
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <
>>> CAJaUSMON7XTbFRSgU5Q-Nv9j8pqFa2uyFvakoBN2QqLVthp+pw at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Thanks Paul Oliver,
>>>
>>> I went through your presentation several times before.
>>> I must say that It is very convincing and inspiring as well.
>>>
>>> Regarding the continous feed concept, I think it is a trade-off.
>>> One one side, we will tell the users all the pros anc cons and let them
>>> decide to choose what they like.
>>> In this case, we will leave several different options for the users by a
>>> field test of different gasifier models.
>>> The user will tell. At this development stage of the continuous gasifier,
>>> I
>>> can't tell which (batch or continuous) suits the user most. Especially,
>>> there is no one-size-fits-all solution
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Tuong
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The moment one goes from batch to continuous, the process gets really
>>>> complicated. Nothing beats the simplicity of a static batch reactor.
>>>> It provides ideal gasification conditions. The problem regarding the
>>>> length of the batch cycle can be overcome if the fuel is densified. If
>>>> the reactor is filled with pellets, the length of the cycle can be
>>>> extended to well over five hours. Imagine: for a five full hours, the
>>>> operator does not have to intervene. There is no loading of rice hulls
>>>> or scrapping out of biochar during this entire period.
>>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22013094/Paper/Presentations/Gasification.ppsx
>>>> The time to empty, reload and relight a batch reactor is less than one
>>>> minute.
>>>> Several reactor tubes can be operated at the same time.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> Paul Olivier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Tuong DoDuc
>>>> <tuong.do at devi-renewable.com> wrote:
>>>>> Dear Dr.TLUD, Paul Oliver, and others,
>>>>>
>>>>> The team in SNV Vietnam is adopting the continous gasifier model
>>>> developed
>>>>> by Belonio. The manual has been obtained from the CRHET.
>>>>> Watch our first propotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQGS-VQIj5M
>>>>> We were able to control the fire, load fuel without affecting the
>>> fire,
>>>> and
>>>>> easily remove char at the bottom of the reactor.
>>>>>
>>>>> We also adopted the computer fan-casing by a cheaper, more popular
>>> fan in
>>>>> Vietnam (often used for coal and fixed wood stove). Fan costed 2USD
>>>> (while
>>>>> to replicate Belonio's fan-casing, we bought the adapter for 5USD and
>>> a
>>>>> computer fan for 1.5USD)
>>>>>
>>>>> However, this is just our first step and we still have so many
>>> problems
>>>> to
>>>>> fully control the fire and ease the operation.
>>>>> 1) For instance, uncontrolled moment happened when combustion occurs
>>>> rigt on
>>>>> top of the fuel hopper, a lot of smoke was produced and later the fire
>>>> burnt
>>>>> the fan.
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/43fkjs0axuye4oj/uncontrollable_moment.jpg
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd1g1cg0a9ue8qt/fan_casing.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) Another problem is that a lot of tar is produced. It deposits on
>>> pot
>>>>> bottom, burner and other part of the stove. That would also harm the
>>>> user.
>>>>> An idea is to create a layer of char in the burner pipe (to filter the
>>>> tar).
>>>>> Not tried yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3) We observes 5-10% of the gas leaked out through the char removal
>>>> door. We
>>>>> burnt them, but user may not know (or they simply just don't care)
>>> that
>>>> it
>>>>> is toxic.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4) One more, it is very hard to control the final minutes of the
>>>>> gasificatoin process. It always cause inverted combustion to the fuel
>>>>> hopper.
>>>>>
>>>>> By this email, I would like to ask if some of you have done similar
>>> work
>>>>> with continuous gasifier like this to share more experience. We can
>>> thus
>>>>> reduce our time and effort in localizing this technology.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Do Duc Tuong,
>>>>>
>>>>> Renewable Energy Advisor
>>>>> SNV Vietnam
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>>
>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>>> site:
>>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>>>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>>>> Dalat
>>>> Vietnam
>>>>
>>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>>>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>>>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/9182fc38/attachment-0001.html
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 8
>>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 16:39:47 +0530
>>> From: Nariphaltan <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>>> To: "rongretlarson at comcast.net" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
>>> Cc: Biochar-production <Biochar-production at yahoogroups.com>,
>>> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>> Message-ID: <B08F79A0-7233-4B92-A188-A7C5BA79BB21 at gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Dear Ron,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your mail. We did this work when very few people were
>>> interested in loose leafy gasifier. It was designed so that the flow is
>>> smooth and hence the best strategy was to pyrolyse the biomass rather than
>>> gasify it. In the process we also generated 25% char (w/w feed basis).
>>> Since we are an agricultural research Institute hence we thought of using
>>> this char as a soil conditioner. This was in 1990-1992. Because of the
>>> pioneer nature of this work the gasifier together with the char in the
>>> field was on cover of International Journal of Biomass Energy (David Hall
>>> used to be the editor of the Journal).
>>>
>>> Why we left this work? This is a long story but we moved on to other
>>> things and partly because no body was interested in the biomass research at
>>> that time.
>>>
>>> Still I think Our work can be inspiration to lots of people.
>>>
>>> All the best.
>>>
>>> Anil
>>>
>>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14-May-2013, at 8:25 AM, rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions
>>>>
>>>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently
>>> with this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one
>>> now buy such hardware?
>>>>
>>>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?
>>>>
>>>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "....can be used as a soil
>>> conditioner." This would have been very early in the history of what we
>>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?
>>>>
>>>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you
>>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?
>>>>
>>>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design
>>> - ahead of its time..
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>>>
>>>> Have a look at this "char making machine".
>>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Cheers.
>>>>
>>>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Stovers,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>>> making char that is just flared off.
>>>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1)
>>> a very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>>>
>>>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas
>>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frank
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Frank Shields
>>>>
>>>> BioChar Division
>>>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>>> 42 Hangar Way
>>>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>>>
>>>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>>> www.controllabs.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130514/88a3f211/attachment-0001.html
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 9
>>> Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 07:56:44 -0700
>>> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
>>> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
>>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, <
>>> rongretlarson at comcast.net>
>>> Cc: 'Biochar-production' <Biochar-production at yahoogroups.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>> Message-ID: <00a301ce50b3$40e683e0$c2b38ba0$@trmiles.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> Anil,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for bringing this out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At the time (1975-1995) there were efforts to convert straws and crop
>>> residues to energy, particularly in France (at AFME, CEMAGREF, Pillard,
>>> etc.). In most cases the char was considered a potential domestic fuel
>>> rather than for agriculture. European demand for charcoal was high. French
>>> wood pyrolysis and gasification plants were still in operation and in
>>> development. (The downdraft gasifier that we associate with Hitler was
>>> invented in France in the 1930s.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As you remember David Hall made a concerted effort to improve
>>> carbonization and energy systems in agriculture.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Nariphaltan
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 4:10 AM
>>> To: rongretlarson at comcast.net
>>> Cc: Biochar-production; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Ron,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for your mail. We did this work when very few people were
>>> interested in loose leafy gasifier. It was designed so that the flow is
>>> smooth and hence the best strategy was to pyrolyse the biomass rather than
>>> gasify it. In the process we also generated 25% char (w/w feed basis).
>>> Since we are an agricultural research Institute hence we thought of using
>>> this char as a soil conditioner. This was in 1990-1992. Because of the
>>> pioneer nature of this work the gasifier together with the char in the
>>> field was on cover of International Journal of Biomass Energy (David Hall
>>> used to be the editor of the Journal).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why we left this work? This is a long story but we moved on to other
>>> things and partly because no body was interested in the biomass research at
>>> that time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Still I think Our work can be inspiration to lots of people.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anil
>>>
>>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14-May-2013, at 8:25 AM, rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote:
>>>
>>> Dr. Rajvanshi: cc stoves and adding "bochar-production"
>>>
>>> Thanks for sending us this report. A few questions
>>>
>>> a. This work was done in the mid '90's. What has happened recently with
>>> this or similar equipment in India or your part of India? Can one now buy
>>> such hardware?
>>>
>>> b. What caused NARI to design a pyrolyzer rather than a combustor?
>>>
>>> c. In the Abstract, you said the char "....can be used as a soil
>>> conditioner." This would have been very early in the history of what we
>>> now call "biochar". Was there then a market near Phaltan for such? Now?
>>>
>>> d. Your economics section does not show a price for char. Can you
>>> guesstimate the relative value then and now for the char?
>>>
>>> Congratulations for what appears to have been a successful design -
>>> ahead of its time..
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>>
>>> From: "Nariphaltan" <nariphaltan at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Cc: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 6:08:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Using all the energy when char making
>>>
>>> Have a look at this "char making machine".
>>> www.nariphaltan.org/Gasifier.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers.
>>>
>>> Anil K Rajvanshi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13-May-2013, at 11:24 PM, "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Stovers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems there is often a lot of wasted energy that could be used when
>>> making char that is just flared off.
>>>
>>> I?m thinking the reason is that to convert to electricity one needs 1) a
>>> very clean syngas 2) an expensive motor and 3) costly up-keep. The
>>> generator is a onetime purchase with low maintenance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So why not use a steam engine to convert the flame to electricity?
>>> Perhaps not as efficient but all you are doing is heating water so the gas
>>> need not be as clean as when drawn into an internal combustion engine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Frank Shields
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> BioChar Division
>>>
>>> Control Laboratories, Inc.
>>>
>>> 42 Hangar Way
>>>
>>> Watsonville, CE 95076
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (831) 724-5422 tel
>>>
>>> (81) 724-3188 fax
>>>
>>> frank at biocharlab.com
>>>
>>> www.controllabs.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>>>
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>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 18
>>> **************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Art Donnelly
>> President SeaChar.Org
>> US Director, The Farm Stove Project
>> Proyecto Estufa Finca
>>
>> <http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2eaJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsUU5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9SKkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfeifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpDpyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlMSqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoyAXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji73zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUliWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0>
>> "SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
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>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
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>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 19
> **************************************
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