[Stoves] stoves by the millions

Art Donnelly art.donnelly at seachar.org
Fri May 31 14:37:36 CDT 2013


Thank you all for bringing the topic of electro-forming in the ocean up. I
still think it is quite imaginative and warrants some investigation. I have
been familiar with Dr Tom Goreau's work to conserve and restore coral reefs
for many years. Recently, I saw that he was experimenting with rock dust
and biochar in Panama. I had not really looked at the biorock or seacreteidea.
Like Paul, we have tried and are still experimenting with fired clay and
aerated concrete and ceramic shell, but most attempts either have not
worked or have severe limitations ($) in terms of practical application.
The TLUD style stoves hit such high temperatures that stainless steel in
combination with baked enamel finishes for some parts seem like the only
scalable solution. However, we always have to be mindful of working on
several levels at once and there is a great need and demand for very
simple, devices that can be completely produced locally.
Where we really take the most heat on every burn is at the top, followed by
the grate at the bottom. Using a k-type digital thermometer I am getting
readings which average between 500-800c off the ND Estufa Finca and we are
working in a humid tropical coastal environment. It is eating our stoves
for lunch!

Art


On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 12:00 PM,
<stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: stoves by the millions (Art Donnelly)
>    2. Re: Improved Charcoal Making in Kenya (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
>    3. Re: stoves by the millions (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
>    4. Re: stoves by the millions (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
>    5. Re: Improved Charcoal Making in Kenya (Inversiones Falcon)
>    6. Re: stoves by the millions (Inversiones Falcon)
>    7. Re: stoves by the millions (mtrevor at ntamar.net)
>    8. Re: stoves by the millions (mtrevor at ntamar.net)
>    9. Re: stoves by the millions (Paul Olivier)
>   10. Re: stoves by the millions (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
>   11. Re: stoves by the millions (mtrevor at ntamar.net)
>   12. Char retort question (David G. LeVine)
>   13. Re: stoves by the millions (mtrevor)
>   14. Re: stoves by the millions (ajheggie at gmail.com)
>   15. Re: Char retort question (ajheggie at gmail.com)
>   16. Re: Char retort question (reecon at mitsuminet.com)
>   17. Re: Char retort question (ajheggie at gmail.com)
>   18. Re: Char retort question (Carefreeland at aol.com)
>   19. Re: Char retort question (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
>   20. Re: stoves by the millions (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 14:34:33 -0600
> From: Art Donnelly <art.donnelly at seachar.org>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID:
>         <CALyHvqr=-
> 7Y-FkG3U8K1fVd1nprHx2R4gnnFne2wVuekTMBHtA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Crispin,
> That has to be just about these most imaginative stove building idea I have
> heard in years. The Estufa Finca_Talamanca project is located on the
> Caribbean coast of C.R. I think we would have just about the perfect
> environment to try this in. I am up in the 'states right now, but I am
> going to forward your suggestion to our team down there. We'll see how
> quick we can test this out. Can you send any links on this to flesh-out my
> understanding of how to do this right?
> Thanks
> A.D.
>
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:22 PM, <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >wrote:
>
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> >
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> >
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> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: stoves by the millions (mtrevor)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 12:49:34 -0700
> > From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> > To: <crispinpigott at gmail.com>, "'Discussion of biomass cooking
> >         stoves'"        <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> > Message-ID: <010701ce5d6e$cfe37860$6faa6920$@net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >
> > I have know Dr Tom Goreau since about  2007 and we have the first and
> only
> > suscessful bio rock structure in the Marshall Island However it would not
> > be
> > fire proof in any way to my knowledge.  I will check with Tom. just few
> > month ago we thru another long exchang because my father made under water
> > colo films in the Bahamas in the 1950's and Tom was tracing photos to try
> > and record hisotrical change over 50 years or more.  Othe stucture we
> have
> > considered. I eve sugesste modular housing unit like 12 x 12 rooms.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Original Message -----
> > From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> > To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> >
> >
> > > Dear Michael
> > >
> > > Do you remember the conversation a few years ago about clay and the
> > > difficulty you had sourcing any?  Without raw material it is difficult
> to
> > > make a fired part.
> > >
> > > How about using DC power and a wire mesh to grow parts in the ocean?
> They
> > > do that in Dominica in the Caribbean. There are reefs made that way and
> > > one could grow a complex stove body using only solar panels and sea
> > water.
> > >
> > > There are some very dense materials that can be made this way if it is
> > > done slowly. I have a couple of samples from the early 90's.
> > >
> > > It would burn and be affected by the fire after a while but it can be
> > > locally made without having to carve or shape it. Just use wire mesh
> and
> > > make whatever shape you want and connect it to the DC power. Calcium
> > > deposits on it. In theory you could make complex parts with air holes
> and
> > > pot rests.
> > >
> > > It is the ultimate lazy man's to build thing like furniture and fences.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Crispin in Beijing's 31 deg. What a change from the snow.
> > >>From BB9900
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> > > Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:52:12
> > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > > Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > > <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > Subject: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Stoves mailing list
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> > >
> > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
> site:
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> > > -----
> > > No virus found in this message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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> > End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 38
> > **************************************
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Art Donnelly
> President SeaChar.Org
> US Director, The Farm Stove Project
> Proyecto Estufa Finca
> <
> http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2eaJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsUU5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9SKkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfeifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpDpyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlMSqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoyAXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji73zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUliWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0
> >
> "SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 20:37:00 +0000 (UTC)
> From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>,      Lanny Henson <
> lanny at roman.net>,
>         Lanny Henson <lannych at bellsouth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved Charcoal Making in Kenya
> Message-ID:
>         <
> 332519993.2418780.1369946220166.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Erin and list cc Lanny
>
> 1. The interview and video were fine, but I am not so happy with this
> char-making Kinjui product.
> a). Seems to be polluting like mad (venting, not flaring), and
> b) No use being made of plentiful energy.
> A simple modification of the design and you could have a TLUD, with
> probably same economics.. Probably could convert faster.
>
> 2. I have eaten wonderful barbecue in Kenya - cooked over charcoal. I know
> nothing about doing the barbeque with an enclosure - which makes it into
> what we might call a smoker. I think the list person wth the most
> experience about barbeques and cookng might be Lanny Henson (cc'd).
>
> Lanny. Could you have the same cooking success with similar "cabinet"
> designs,but with a charcoal maker at the bottom rather a charcoal-using
> jiko?
>
> 3. Same question - but no cabinet.
>
> Ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Erin Rasmussen" <erin at trmiles.com>
> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:03:25 PM
> Subject: [Stoves] Improved Charcoal Making in Kenya
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> This is a nice video interview about the Cookswell improved Charcoal Kiln.
> The charcoal kiln is an improved kiln design that is being promoted to
> Kenyans who would like to turn small tree branches and brush into charcoal
> for their stoves. They are not shy about promoting the charcoal maker as a
> way to save money, be healthier, and help the environment. They also have
> an active tree planting program with their stoves and charcoal makers.
> http://youtu.be/SN4E8eS9wUk
>
>
>
> More information about the Cookswell stoves and charcoal makers:
> http://kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> Erin Rasmussen
>
>
>
> TR Miles Technical Consultants Inc. http://www.trmiles.com/
>
> and BioEnergy Discussion Lists http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
> erin at trmiles.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
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>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 21:15:42 +0000
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID:
>
> <1358565302-1369948539-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1851496160- at b5.c10.bise6.blackberry
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Dear Art
>
> The people to talk to are the reef repair and conservation groups. They
> put cars int the ocean and connect them with wire and grow dense limestone
> fish habitats.
>
> The thing that impressed me was the hardness and density of the slow grown
> material. I expected it to be like "limestone" but it is more like marble.
> Neither will take heat from a fire indefinitely because they de-hydrate
> (literally). Same with cement. Maybe 400 C, but is it possible to shape
> things.
>
> They make dolphins etc in Dominica and sell them to tourists.
>
> This is not a new technology. It was used by the Brits to coat long steel
> water pipes going to the ocean, knowing that the iron would not last long.
>
> The physics and chemistry are sound.
>
> For those who would totally go for the maximum local labour input, I make
> a machine for producing 14 mm chain link fence (diamond mesh, to some)
> which is stretchy and can be pulled over forms. It uses 0.9mm galv wire.
> The machine is manual.
>
> 1/2 inch chicken wire will work of course and solder sticks to it well to
> make the electrical connection.
>
> What I know is that if you raise the current, it decreases the density.
> This offers the possibility of creating stove parts with different
> insulating properties.
>
> Look online for the participants at the 1994 small island developing
> states (SIDS) conference in Barbados - a sort of Rio 92 for islands. There
> were presentations on the technology. That's where I got the samples.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
> From BB9900
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Art Donnelly <art.donnelly at seachar.org>
> Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 14:34:33
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Unlimited Disk, Data Transfer, PHP/MySQL Domain Hosting
>               http://www.doteasy.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 21:18:34 +0000
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "Michael N Trevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>,    "Erin Rasmussen"
>         <erin at trmiles.com>,     "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID:
>
> <1654836598-1369948711-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-288526173- at b5.c10.bise6.blackberry
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Dear Michael
>
> That name is very familiar. They will not 'withstand' fire in the regular
> sense but it is a way to create a stove or a stove body with inserts (?)
> Without buying metal or finding clay (which you don't have).
>
> When handed lemons make lemonade.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
> From BB9900
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> Sender: "Erin Rasmussen" <erin at trmiles.com>
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 12:49:34
> To: <crispinpigott at gmail.com>; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'<
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: RE: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
>
>
> I have know Dr Tom Goreau since about  2007 and we have the first and only
> suscessful bio rock structure in the Marshall Island However it would not
> be
> fire proof in any way to my knowledge.  I will check with Tom. just few
> month ago we thru another long exchang because my father made under water
> colo films in the Bahamas in the 1950's and Tom was tracing photos to try
> and record hisotrical change over 50 years or more.  Othe stucture we have
> considered. I eve sugesste modular housing unit like 12 x 12 rooms.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> -- Original Message -----
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
>
>
> > Dear Michael
> >
> > Do you remember the conversation a few years ago about clay and the
> > difficulty you had sourcing any?  Without raw material it is difficult to
> > make a fired part.
> >
> > How about using DC power and a wire mesh to grow parts in the ocean? They
> > do that in Dominica in the Caribbean. There are reefs made that way and
> > one could grow a complex stove body using only solar panels and sea
> water.
> >
> > There are some very dense materials that can be made this way if it is
> > done slowly. I have a couple of samples from the early 90's.
> >
> > It would burn and be affected by the fire after a while but it can be
> > locally made without having to carve or shape it. Just use wire mesh and
> > make whatever shape you want and connect it to the DC power. Calcium
> > deposits on it. In theory you could make complex parts with air holes and
> > pot rests.
> >
> > It is the ultimate lazy man's to build thing like furniture and fences.
> >
> > Regards
> > Crispin in Beijing's 31 deg. What a change from the snow.
> >>From BB9900
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> > Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:52:12
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> .org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> .org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6365 - Release Date: 05/28/13
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 14:23:20 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Inversiones Falcon <invfalcones53 at yahoo.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved Charcoal Making in Kenya
> Message-ID:
>         <1369949000.10011.YahooMailNeo at web125704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Will someone send pictures of this charcoal stove, there is any link to
> see it in internet
> ?
> Thank you for your help.
> ?
> Gus
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: "rongretlarson at comcast.net" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>;
> Lanny Henson <lanny at roman.net>; Lanny Henson <lannych at bellsouth.net>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 2:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Improved Charcoal Making in Kenya
>
>
>
> Erin and list??? cc? Lanny
>
> ??? 1. ?? The interview and video were fine, but I am not so happy with
> this char-making Kinjui product.?
> ? ? ? ? a).? Seems to be polluting like mad (venting, not flaring), and
> ? ? ? ? b)?? No use being made of plentiful energy.?
> ?? A simple modification of the design and you could have a TLUD, with
> probably same economics..? Probably could convert faster.
>
> ??? 2.?? I have eaten wonderful barbecue in Kenya - cooked over
> charcoal.??? I know nothing about doing the barbeque with an enclosure -
> which makes it into what we might call a smoker.?? I think? the list person
> wth the most experience about barbeques and cookng might be Lanny Henson
> (cc'd).
>
> ? ? ?? Lanny.? Could you have the same cooking success with similar
> "cabinet" designs,but with a charcoal maker at the bottom rather a
> charcoal-using jiko??
>
> ??? 3.? Same question - but no cabinet.?
>
> Ron
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Erin Rasmussen" <erin at trmiles.com>
> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 12:03:25 PM
> Subject: [Stoves] Improved Charcoal Making in Kenya
>
>
> Hi All,
> ?
> This is a nice video interview about the Cookswell improved Charcoal
> Kiln.? The charcoal kiln is an improved kiln design that is being promoted
> to Kenyans who would like to turn small tree branches and brush into
> charcoal for their stoves. They are not shy about promoting the charcoal
> maker as a way to save money, be healthier, and help the environment. They
> also have an active tree planting program with their stoves and charcoal
> makers.? http://youtu.be/SN4E8eS9wUk
> ?
> More information about the Cookswell stoves and charcoal makers:
> http://kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com/
> ?
> ?
> Erin Rasmussen
> ?
> TR Miles Technical Consultants Inc.?? http://www.trmiles.com/
> and BioEnergy Discussion Lists?? http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> erin at trmiles.com
> ?
> ?
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
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>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, ?News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>
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>
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> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 14:25:32 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Inversiones Falcon <invfalcones53 at yahoo.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID:
>         <1369949132.44765.YahooMailNeo at web125702.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> can you send me pictures I can not see attachments
> ?
> Gus
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Rebecca A. Vermeer <ravermeer at telus.net>
> To: mtrevor <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 5:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
>
>
>
>
> Take out the words ?simple cheap long last? from your wish list of specs
> and your crimped stoves will do.
>
> Rebecca Vermeer
>
> From: mtrevor
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 2:09 AM
> To: Rebecca A. Vermeer
> Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking
> stoves
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
>  Yes but have you looked at what shipping a fired
> clay stove from the Phillipines to Majuro would be?
> I can not get Paul Oliver's stove from Vietnam or
> Dr Belonios stove or? Dr Nurthuda stove from Indonesia.
> ?
> I was thinking more like 2 crimped creased foldable
> sections like the attached photo of my helium bottle stove
> ?
> Michael N Trevor
> ?
> ?
> ----- Original Message -----
> >From: Rebecca A.  Vermeer
> >To: Discussion of biomass cooking  stoves ; mtrevor
> >Cc: Rebecca A. Vermeer
> >Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:43
> PM
> >Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the  millions
> >
> >Hello Michael ? look no further.
> >
> >Rebecca Vermeer
> >Eco-Kalan Project in Dumaguete City, Oriental side of Negros Island,
>  Philippines
> >
> >From: mtrevor
> >Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:52 PM
> >To: Discussion of biomass cooking  stoves
> >Subject: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> > A simplistic view from the sand pile in the  ocean. After a number of
> years of stoving around there is one item I have yet  to see.
> >a simple cheap long last elbow, say maybe 4  inches in diameter with
> approximately a 6/7 inch inlet side? an a 12 to  15 inch up side
> >Fired clay?
> >Fairly heavy guage stainless
> >ceramic
> >Titanium.
> >I might be off base but even if made with exotic  materials a truely long
> lasting effective rocket elbow should not be that
> >expensive and would allow nearly anyone anywhere  to make a pretty good
> rocket stove out of nearly anything.
> >Like cut a 4 inch hole in carboard box and fill  it with sand. Box breaks
> down get another. Recyle a used paint bucket
> >?
> >Seems to me I remember a term call  KISS.
> >?
> >Of course I may have just not looked in the right  place
> >?
> >?
> >Michael N Trevor
> >Marshall Islands.
> >?
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> _______________________________________________
> >Stoves mailing
>   list
> >
> >to Send a Message to the list, use the email
>   address
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> >
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>   your List Settings use the web
>   page
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >for
>   more Biomass Cooking Stoves,? News and Information see our web
>   site:
> >http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >No virus found in this  message.
> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus
>   Database: 3184/6365 - Release Date:
> 05/28/13
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
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>
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 21:55:09 -0400
> From: mtrevor at ntamar.net
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID: <20130530215508.14727iymeac9uvc4 at webmail.ntamar.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
> Art
>
> Your need to Google Dr Tom Goreau  and Biorock.
>
> Tom has considerable experience and back ground in
>
> Central America as well
>
> Michael N Trevor
>
> Marshall Isands
>
> > Crispin,
> > That has to be just about these most imaginative stove building idea I
> have heard in years. The Estufa Finca_Talamanca project is located on the
> Caribbean coast of C.R. I think we would have just about the perfect
> environment to try this in. I am up in the 'states right now, but I am
> going to forward your suggestion to our team down there. We'll see how
> quick we can test this out. Can you send any links on this to flesh-out my
> understanding of how to do this right?
> > Thanks
> > A.D.
> >
> > On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:22 PM,  <
> stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Send Stoves mailing list submissions to
> > > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > stoves-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > >    1. Re: stoves by the millions (mtrevor)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 12:49:34 -0700
> > > From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> > > To: <crispinpigott at gmail.com>, "'Discussion of biomass cooking
> > >         stoves'"        <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> > > Message-ID: <010701ce5d6e$cfe37860$6faa6920$@net>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > >
> > > I have know Dr Tom Goreau since about  2007 and we have the first and
> only
> > > suscessful bio rock structure in the Marshall Island However it would
> not be
> > > fire proof in any way to my knowledge.  I will check with Tom. just few
> > > month ago we thru another long exchang because my father made under
> water
> > > colo films in the Bahamas in the 1950's and Tom was tracing photos to
> try
> > > and record hisotrical change over 50 years or more.  Othe stucture we
> have
> > > considered. I eve sugesste modular housing unit like 12 x 12 rooms.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > -- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> > > To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:33 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dear Michael
> > > >
> > > > Do you remember the conversation a few years ago about clay and the
> > > > difficulty you had sourcing any?  Without raw material it is
> difficult to
> > > > make a fired part.
> > > >
> > > > How about using DC power and a wire mesh to grow parts in the ocean?
> They
> > > > do that in Dominica in the Caribbean. There are reefs made that way
> and
> > > > one could grow a complex stove body using only solar panels and sea
> water.
> > > >
> > > > There are some very dense materials that can be made this way if it
> is
> > > > done slowly. I have a couple of samples from the early 90's.
> > > >
> > > > It would burn and be affected by the fire after a while but it can be
> > > > locally made without having to carve or shape it. Just use wire mesh
> and
> > > > make whatever shape you want and connect it to the DC power. Calcium
> > > > deposits on it. In theory you could make complex parts with air
> holes and
> > > > pot rests.
> > > >
> > > > It is the ultimate lazy man's to build thing like furniture and
> fences.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Crispin in Beijing's 31 deg. What a change from the snow.
> > > >>From BB9900
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> > > > Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > > Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:52:12
> > > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > > Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > > > <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > > Subject: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Stoves mailing list
> > > >
> > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > > > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > > >
> > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > > >
> > >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> > > .org
> > > >
> > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
> site:
> > > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Stoves mailing list
> > > >
> > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > > > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > > >
> > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > > >
> > >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> > > .org
> > > >
> > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
> site:
> > > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----
> > > > No virus found in this message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6365 - Release Date:
> 05/28/13
> > > >
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > > Name: Majuro_Borock_report_2007.pdf
> > > Type: application/pdf
> > > Size: 836720 bytes
> > > Desc: not available
> > > URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130530/7141bb7d/attachment.pdf
> >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Subject: Digest Footer
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Stoves mailing list
> > >
> > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > >
> > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
> site:
> > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 38
> > > **************************************
> >
> > --
> > Art Donnelly
> > President SeaChar.Org
> > US Director, The Farm Stove Project
> > Proyecto Estufa Finca
> >
> > "SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 21:59:45 -0400
> From: mtrevor at ntamar.net
> To: crispinpigott at gmail.com
> Cc: Stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID: <20130530215945.19862fuhvdvwbt34 at webmail.ntamar.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Actually,"I usually say when crabby buy mayo and make salad"
>
> I will give Tom a up as well---
>
> Michael N Trevor
> Marshall Islands
>
> > Dear Michael
> >
> > That name is very familiar. They will not 'withstand' fire in the
> > regular sense but it is a way to create a stove or a stove body with
> > inserts (?) Without buying metal or finding clay (which you don't
> > have).
> >
> > When handed lemons make lemonade.
> >
> > Regards
> > Crispin
> >> From BB9900
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> > Sender: "Erin Rasmussen" <erin at trmiles.com>
> > Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 12:49:34
> > To: <crispinpigott at gmail.com>; 'Discussion of biomass cooking
> > stoves'<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: RE: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> >
> >
> > I have know Dr Tom Goreau since about  2007 and we have the first and
> only
> > suscessful bio rock structure in the Marshall Island However it would
> not be
> > fire proof in any way to my knowledge.  I will check with Tom. just few
> > month ago we thru another long exchang because my father made under water
> > colo films in the Bahamas in the 1950's and Tom was tracing photos to try
> > and record hisotrical change over 50 years or more.  Othe stucture we
> have
> > considered. I eve sugesste modular housing unit like 12 x 12 rooms.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Original Message -----
> > From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> > To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> >
> >
> >> Dear Michael
> >>
> >> Do you remember the conversation a few years ago about clay and the
> >> difficulty you had sourcing any?  Without raw material it is difficult
> to
> >> make a fired part.
> >>
> >> How about using DC power and a wire mesh to grow parts in the ocean?
> They
> >> do that in Dominica in the Caribbean. There are reefs made that way and
> >> one could grow a complex stove body using only solar panels and sea
> water.
> >>
> >> There are some very dense materials that can be made this way if it is
> >> done slowly. I have a couple of samples from the early 90's.
> >>
> >> It would burn and be affected by the fire after a while but it can be
> >> locally made without having to carve or shape it. Just use wire mesh and
> >> make whatever shape you want and connect it to the DC power. Calcium
> >> deposits on it. In theory you could make complex parts with air holes
> and
> >> pot rests.
> >>
> >> It is the ultimate lazy man's to build thing like furniture and fences.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Crispin in Beijing's 31 deg. What a change from the snow.
> >>> From BB9900
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> >> Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:52:12
> >> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >> Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> >> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >> Subject: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Stoves mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> > .org
> >>
> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Stoves mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> > .org
> >>
> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >> -----
> >> No virus found in this message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6365 - Release Date:
> 05/28/13
> >>
> >
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 05:01:33 +0700
> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID:
>         <CAOreFvYN6EzaukV6Y+9-=50XCdosDK=
> NnpXy-M02cw-fLg90jg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Art,
>
> Not long ago I made reactor using refractory ceramic pipe. This pipe is
> designed to handle molten metal and is supposed to withstand temperatures
> up to 1,750 C. In less than two minutes into a TLUD burn with rice hulls,
> it cracked. It is hard to imagine that a reef-formed reactor will last very
> long.
>
> Paul Olivier
>
>
> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 3:34 AM, Art Donnelly <art.donnelly at seachar.org
> >wrote:
>
> > Crispin,
> > That has to be just about these most imaginative stove building idea I
> > have heard in years. The Estufa Finca_Talamanca project is located on the
> > Caribbean coast of C.R. I think we would have just about the perfect
> > environment to try this in. I am up in the 'states right now, but I am
> > going to forward your suggestion to our team down there. We'll see how
> > quick we can test this out. Can you send any links on this to flesh-out
> my
> > understanding of how to do this right?
> > Thanks
> > A.D.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:22 PM, <
> stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:
> >
> >> Send Stoves mailing list submissions to
> >>         stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>
> >>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>         stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>         stoves-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>    1. Re: stoves by the millions (mtrevor)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 12:49:34 -0700
> >> From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> >> To: <crispinpigott at gmail.com>, "'Discussion of biomass cooking
> >>         stoves'"        <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> >> Message-ID: <010701ce5d6e$cfe37860$6faa6920$@net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >>
> >> I have know Dr Tom Goreau since about  2007 and we have the first and
> only
> >> suscessful bio rock structure in the Marshall Island However it would
> not
> >> be
> >> fire proof in any way to my knowledge.  I will check with Tom. just few
> >> month ago we thru another long exchang because my father made under
> water
> >> colo films in the Bahamas in the 1950's and Tom was tracing photos to
> try
> >> and record hisotrical change over 50 years or more.  Othe stucture we
> have
> >> considered. I eve sugesste modular housing unit like 12 x 12 rooms.
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:33 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> >>
> >>
> >> > Dear Michael
> >> >
> >> > Do you remember the conversation a few years ago about clay and the
> >> > difficulty you had sourcing any?  Without raw material it is difficult
> >> to
> >> > make a fired part.
> >> >
> >> > How about using DC power and a wire mesh to grow parts in the ocean?
> >> They
> >> > do that in Dominica in the Caribbean. There are reefs made that way
> and
> >> > one could grow a complex stove body using only solar panels and sea
> >> water.
> >> >
> >> > There are some very dense materials that can be made this way if it is
> >> > done slowly. I have a couple of samples from the early 90's.
> >> >
> >> > It would burn and be affected by the fire after a while but it can be
> >> > locally made without having to carve or shape it. Just use wire mesh
> and
> >> > make whatever shape you want and connect it to the DC power. Calcium
> >> > deposits on it. In theory you could make complex parts with air holes
> >> and
> >> > pot rests.
> >> >
> >> > It is the ultimate lazy man's to build thing like furniture and
> fences.
> >> >
> >> > Regards
> >> > Crispin in Beijing's 31 deg. What a change from the snow.
> >> >>From BB9900
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> >> > Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >> > Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:52:12
> >> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<
> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >> > Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> >> > <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >> > Subject: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Stoves mailing list
> >> >
> >> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> >
> >> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> >> .org<
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >> >
> >> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
> site:
> >> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Stoves mailing list
> >> >
> >> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> >
> >> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> >> .org<
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >> >
> >> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
> site:
> >> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----
> >> > No virus found in this message.
> >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6365 - Release Date:
> >> 05/28/13
> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
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> >>
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Stoves mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 38
> >> **************************************
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Art Donnelly
> > President SeaChar.Org
> > US Director, The Farm Stove Project
> > Proyecto Estufa Finca
> >
> > <
> http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2eaJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsUU5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9SKkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfeifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpDpyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlMSqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoyAXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji73zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUliWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0
> >
> > "SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/
> -------------- next part --------------
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 22:03:09 +0000 (UTC)
> From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>,      mtrevor <
> mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID:
>         <
> 897661129.2422197.1369951389375.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Trevor: with ccs
>
> I am anxious to hear also from Tom G - also a friend.
>
> In the meantime, I suggest your thinking about cast two-hole concrete
> blocks. I have been to Majuro several times and have a vague feeling that
> they are or could be made there now, given (maybe) a need for not much more
> than water, sand and sea shells (or pebbles).and of course cement, which I
> am sure you have easy access to - maybe even blocks (which are super cheap).
>
> I have successfully run a TLUD design using one block above another (with
> nails as separators below and between) several times, even a few months
> ago. No breakage apparent, but I have never run one long term for life
> testing. They remained relatively cool to the touch.
>
> I can't recall seeing this approach ever mentioned on this list. Anyone?
>
> Ron
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> To: crispinpigott at gmail.com, "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:49:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
>
>
> I have know Dr Tom Goreau since about 2007 and we have the first and only
> suscessful bio rock structure in the Marshall Island However it would not
> be
> fire proof in any way to my knowledge. I will check with Tom. just few
> month ago we thru another long exchang because my father made under water
> colo films in the Bahamas in the 1950's and Tom was tracing photos to try
> and record hisotrical change over 50 years or more. Othe stucture we have
> considered. I eve sugesste modular housing unit like 12 x 12 rooms.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> -- Original Message -----
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
>
>
> > Dear Michael
> >
> > Do you remember the conversation a few years ago about clay and the
> > difficulty you had sourcing any? Without raw material it is difficult to
> > make a fired part.
> >
> > How about using DC power and a wire mesh to grow parts in the ocean? They
> > do that in Dominica in the Caribbean. There are reefs made that way and
> > one could grow a complex stove body using only solar panels and sea
> water.
> >
> > There are some very dense materials that can be made this way if it is
> > done slowly. I have a couple of samples from the early 90's.
> >
> > It would burn and be affected by the fire after a while but it can be
> > locally made without having to carve or shape it. Just use wire mesh and
> > make whatever shape you want and connect it to the DC power. Calcium
> > deposits on it. In theory you could make complex parts with air holes and
> > pot rests.
> >
> > It is the ultimate lazy man's to build thing like furniture and fences.
> >
> > Regards
> > Crispin in Beijing's 31 deg. What a change from the snow.
> >>From BB9900
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> > Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:52:12
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> .org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stoves mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> .org
> >
> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6365 - Release Date: 05/28/13
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130530/881e659a/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 22:08:07 -0400
> From: mtrevor at ntamar.net
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>,      Paul Olivier
>         <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID: <20130530220807.148951vh02ufehc8 at webmail.ntamar.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
> True but as we head along you might be able to "grow" a truly nice stove
> body to house an internal insulated burner or rocket elbow bedded in
> vermicuite or pumice power.
>
> There is some room for serious thought here
>
> Michael N Trevor
>
> Marshall Island
>
> > Art,
> >
> > Not long ago I made reactor using refractory ceramic pipe. This pipe is
> designed to handle molten metal and is supposed to withstand temperatures
> up to 1,750 C. In less than two minutes into a TLUD burn with rice hulls,
> it cracked. It is hard to imagine that a reef-formed reactor will last very
> long.
> >
> > Paul Olivier
> >
> > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 3:34 AM, Art Donnelly <art.donnelly at seachar.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Crispin,
> > > That has to be just about these most imaginative stove building idea I
> have heard in years. The Estufa Finca_Talamanca project is located on the
> Caribbean coast of C.R. I think we would have just about the perfect
> environment to try this in. I am up in the 'states right now, but I am
> going to forward your suggestion to our team down there. We'll see how
> quick we can test this out. Can you send any links on this to flesh-out my
> understanding of how to do this right?
> > > Thanks
> > > A.D.
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:22 PM,  <
> stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Send Stoves mailing list submissions to
> > > > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > > >
> > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> > > >
> > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > > >
> > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > > stoves-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > > >
> > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > > than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Today's Topics:
> > > >
> > > >    1. Re: stoves by the millions (mtrevor)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 1
> > > > Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 12:49:34 -0700
> > > > From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> > > > To: <crispinpigott at gmail.com>, "'Discussion of biomass cooking
> > > >         stoves'"        <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> > > > Message-ID: <010701ce5d6e$cfe37860$6faa6920$@net>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have know Dr Tom Goreau since about  2007 and we have the first
> and only
> > > > suscessful bio rock structure in the Marshall Island However it
> would not be
> > > > fire proof in any way to my knowledge.  I will check with Tom. just
> few
> > > > month ago we thru another long exchang because my father made under
> water
> > > > colo films in the Bahamas in the 1950's and Tom was tracing photos
> to try
> > > > and record hisotrical change over 50 years or more.  Othe stucture
> we have
> > > > considered. I eve sugesste modular housing unit like 12 x 12 rooms.
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > -- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> > > > To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 7:33 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Michael
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you remember the conversation a few years ago about clay and the
> > > > > difficulty you had sourcing any?  Without raw material it is
> difficult to
> > > > > make a fired part.
> > > > >
> > > > > How about using DC power and a wire mesh to grow parts in the
> ocean? They
> > > > > do that in Dominica in the Caribbean. There are reefs made that
> way and
> > > > > one could grow a complex stove body using only solar panels and
> sea water.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are some very dense materials that can be made this way if
> it is
> > > > > done slowly. I have a couple of samples from the early 90's.
> > > > >
> > > > > It would burn and be affected by the fire after a while but it can
> be
> > > > > locally made without having to carve or shape it. Just use wire
> mesh and
> > > > > make whatever shape you want and connect it to the DC power.
> Calcium
> > > > > deposits on it. In theory you could make complex parts with air
> holes and
> > > > > pot rests.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is the ultimate lazy man's to build thing like furniture and
> fences.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Crispin in Beijing's 31 deg. What a change from the snow.
> > > > >>From BB9900
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> > > > > Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > > > Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 17:52:12
> > > > > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > > > Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> > > > > <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > > > Subject: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Stoves mailing list
> > > > >
> > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > > > > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > > > >
> > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > > > >
> > > >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> > > > .org
> > > > >
> > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
> site:
> > > > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Stoves mailing list
> > > > >
> > > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > > > > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > > > >
> > > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > > > >
> > > >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> > > > .org
> > > > >
> > > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
> site:
> > > > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----
> > > > > No virus found in this message.
> > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3184/6365 - Release Date:
> 05/28/13
> > > > >
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > Name: Majuro_Borock_report_2007.pdf
> > > > Type: application/pdf
> > > > Size: 836720 bytes
> > > > Desc: not available
> > > > URL: <
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130530/7141bb7d/attachment.pdf
> >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Digest Footer
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Stoves mailing list
> > > >
> > > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > > > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > > >
> > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > > >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
> site:
> > > > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 38
> > > > **************************************
> > >
> > > --
> > > Art Donnelly
> > > President SeaChar.Org
> > > US Director, The Farm Stove Project
> > > Proyecto Estufa Finca
> > >
> > > "SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Stoves mailing list
> > >
> > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
> site:
> > > http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> > --
> > Paul A. Olivier PhD
> > 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> > Dalat
> > Vietnam
> >
> > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> > Skype address: Xpolivier
> > http://www.esrla.com/
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 00:30:27 -0400
> From: "David G. LeVine" <dlevine at speakeasy.net>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] Char retort question
> Message-ID: <51A82763.9060809 at speakeasy.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Let me start with "This is something I think I remember seeing."
>
> Given a mass of biological matter (no, I don't care if it is twigs,
> grass or tree stumps), put it in a horizontal 55 gallon drum with a band
> clamped head and a pipe from the top of the head down and under the drum
> with holes in the pipe which is parallel to the drum.  Once filled
> (maybe not full either), a fire is started with scraps until the gasses
> coming out of the pipe burn.  This means the heating becomes self
> sustaining and the carbon is unlikely to be vaporized, but the gasses
> driven off are used, not wasted.  Suddenly the pollution is reduced and
> the efficiency goes up.
>
> 1. Does this ring a bell in anyone else's mind?
>
> 2. Does this sound like a viable approach?
>
> Clearly destructive distillation works, the question is how much energy
> is available and is needed to run the process.
>
> Dave  8{)
> --
>
> "A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the
> advice."
>
> Bill Cosby
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 19:56:10 +1200
> From: "mtrevor" <mtrevor at ntamar.net>
> To: "Inversiones Falcon" <invfalcones53 at yahoo.com>,     "Discussion of
>         biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID: <F2A2FF0D1D8A45ECA474ED6EF50EA10B at HP29397140882>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Gus
>
> You were asking pictures of what from whom
>
> Michael
> Marshall Islands
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 09:27:36 +0100
> From: ajheggie at gmail.com
> To: crispinpigott at gmail.com,    Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID: <1ingq896h7q3d8kgr7r3d1ahduntrsatmg at 4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> [Default] On Thu, 30 May 2013 21:15:42 +0000,"Crispin
> Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Dear Art
> >
> >The people to talk to are the reef repair and conservation groups.
>
> I have a friend in America who is involved with this sort of thing,
> abandoned oil rigs to reefs. Dana is a sibling of a denizen of
> [stoves] ;-).
>
> AJH
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 09:39:18 +0100
> From: ajheggie at gmail.com
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Char retort question
> Message-ID: <jrngq8pvvpuc1kt3861ks9mpfmm43oarpd at 4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> [Default] On Fri, 31 May 2013 00:30:27 -0400,"David G. LeVine"
> <dlevine at speakeasy.net> wrote:
>
> >Let me start with "This is something I think I remember seeing."
> >
> >Given a mass of biological matter (no, I don't care if it is twigs,
> >grass or tree stumps), put it in a horizontal 55 gallon drum with a band
> >clamped head and a pipe from the top of the head down and under the drum
> >with holes in the pipe which is parallel to the drum.  Once filled
> >(maybe not full either), a fire is started with scraps until the gasses
> >coming out of the pipe burn.  This means the heating becomes self
> >sustaining and the carbon is unlikely to be vaporized, but the gasses
> >driven off are used, not wasted.  Suddenly the pollution is reduced and
> >the efficiency goes up.
> >
> >1. Does this ring a bell in anyone else's mind?
> >
> >2. Does this sound like a viable approach?
>
> Yes it's the system originally developed by Lurgi for coal pre WW2 and
> has been revived many times, in England Robbie Webster promoted it
> about 10 years ago and I suspect the Adam Retort uses a similar
> feedback path. The limitation is the poor surface area through which
> the heat can pass, not a big problem with dry wood.
>
> It is viable but think of the timeline of how pyrolysis develops, the
> offgas does not evolve evenly and its calorific value changes during
> the process, this tends to mean most of the heat from the offgas is
> happening after the main charge is carbonised. Yury Yudkevitch
> addressed this problem by having a series of cylinder retorts feeding
> a central offgas manifold which then heated the "oven" space in which
> the cylinders sat, removing cyclinc=ders and replacing with fresh in a
> batch sequence.
>
> AJH
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 15:14:51 +0300 (EAT)
> From: reecon at mitsuminet.com
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Char retort question
> Message-ID:
>         <1068878085.9628136.1370002491327.JavaMail.root at mitsuminet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I have developed an incinerator that i believe is carbon neutral. It runs
> on firewood and attains 2000 oC.It actually runs on firewood and can burn
> even wet material. I think it is also based on pyrolysis principle. When i
> was in India, we developed the charcoal making unit based exactly on what u
> have described below David G. Levine
> Regards,
> Musungu Wycliffe.
> Reecon, Kenya.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ajheggie at gmail.com
> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 11:39:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Char retort question
>
> [Default] On Fri, 31 May 2013 00:30:27 -0400,"David G. LeVine"
> <dlevine at speakeasy.net> wrote:
>
> >Let me start with "This is something I think I remember seeing."
> >
> >Given a mass of biological matter (no, I don't care if it is twigs,
> >grass or tree stumps), put it in a horizontal 55 gallon drum with a band
> >clamped head and a pipe from the top of the head down and under the drum
> >with holes in the pipe which is parallel to the drum.  Once filled
> >(maybe not full either), a fire is started with scraps until the gasses
> >coming out of the pipe burn.  This means the heating becomes self
> >sustaining and the carbon is unlikely to be vaporized, but the gasses
> >driven off are used, not wasted.  Suddenly the pollution is reduced and
> >the efficiency goes up.
> >
> >1. Does this ring a bell in anyone else's mind?
> >
> >2. Does this sound like a viable approach?
>
> Yes it's the system originally developed by Lurgi for coal pre WW2 and
> has been revived many times, in England Robbie Webster promoted it
> about 10 years ago and I suspect the Adam Retort uses a similar
> feedback path. The limitation is the poor surface area through which
> the heat can pass, not a big problem with dry wood.
>
> It is viable but think of the timeline of how pyrolysis develops, the
> offgas does not evolve evenly and its calorific value changes during
> the process, this tends to mean most of the heat from the offgas is
> happening after the main charge is carbonised. Yury Yudkevitch
> addressed this problem by having a series of cylinder retorts feeding
> a central offgas manifold which then heated the "oven" space in which
> the cylinders sat, removing cyclinc=ders and replacing with fresh in a
> batch sequence.
>
> AJH
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 14:38:39 +0100
> From: ajheggie at gmail.com
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Char retort question
> Message-ID: <ar9hq8lclp9ocm09osor604es2v6kck78b at 4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> [Default] On Fri, 31 May 2013 15:14:51 +0300
> (EAT),reecon at mitsuminet.com wrote:
>
> >I have developed an incinerator that i believe is carbon neutral. It runs
> on firewood and attains 2000 oC.It actually runs on firewood and can burn
> even wet material. I think it is also based on pyrolysis principle. When i
> was in India, we developed the charcoal making unit based exactly on what u
> have described below David G. Levine
>
>
> How did you measure the temperature? Perceived wisdom is that you
> cannot exceed the adiabatic flame temperature, which for wood is less
> than 2000C or have I missed something? Could it be possible to get
> higher with some heat recycling?
>
> AJH
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 10:58:08 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Carefreeland at aol.com
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Char retort question
> Message-ID: <8c409.785d8e87.3eda1480 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> DD - A number of years ago I described a retort system  similar to this
> based on small experiments I did with a 20 lb propane cylinder.  Like
> Yury,  in
> my plans, I had three 100 lb propane cylinder retorts,  feeding a central
> gas burner tube. The whole thing sat inside an insulated 275  gallon
> heating
> oil tank. The whole thing pivoted to unload and rotate the chips  and
> sticks
> used as feedstock. A small fire lit under the first cylinder got the  thing
> started.  As the process finished, the kiln was rotated and each  cylinder
> and dumped into a quenching can, then refilled in the upright  position.
> Each kin had a pressure tight lid and the process would operate  under
> slight
> pressure adding to the carbon output. Operated by one man, it  would
> continuously produce char.
>
>     I wanted to demonstrate it for Southern Ohio  farmers. They could turn
> fence row and overgrown pasture burn off wood into  an industrial fuel. Ten
> years ago nobody was excited about it because they had  downdraft
> carbonizers. What did they need with retort char?
>
>     Dan Dimiduk
>
>     Owner: Carefree Landscape
>     Founder: Shangri- La Research.
>
>
> In a message dated 5/31/2013 4:39:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> ajheggie at gmail.com writes:
>
> [Default] On Fri, 31 May 2013 00:30:27 -0400,"David G.  LeVine"
> <dlevine at speakeasy.net> wrote:
>
> >Let me start with  "This is something I think I remember seeing."
> >
> >Given a mass of  biological matter (no, I don't care if it is twigs,
> >grass or tree  stumps), put it in a horizontal 55 gallon drum with a band
> >clamped  head and a pipe from the top of the head down and under the drum
> >with  holes in the pipe which is parallel to the drum.  Once filled
> >(maybe not full either), a fire is started with scraps until the  gasses
> >coming out of the pipe burn.  This means the heating  becomes self
> >sustaining and the carbon is unlikely to be vaporized,  but the gasses
> >driven off are used, not wasted.  Suddenly the  pollution is reduced and
> >the efficiency goes up.
> >
> >1.  Does this ring a bell in anyone else's mind?
> >
> >2. Does this sound  like a viable approach?
>
> Yes it's the system originally developed by  Lurgi for coal pre WW2 and
> has been revived many times, in England Robbie  Webster promoted it
> about 10 years ago and I suspect the Adam Retort uses a  similar
> feedback path. The limitation is the poor surface area through  which
> the heat can pass, not a big problem with dry wood.
>
> It is  viable but think of the timeline of how pyrolysis develops, the
> offgas does  not evolve evenly and its calorific value changes during
> the process, this  tends to mean most of the heat from the offgas is
> happening after the main  charge is carbonised. Yury Yudkevitch
> addressed this problem by having a  series of cylinder retorts feeding
> a central offgas manifold which then  heated the "oven" space in which
> the cylinders sat, removing cyclinc=ders  and replacing with fresh in a
> batch  sequence.
>
> AJH
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves  mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email  address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change  your List Settings use the web  page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> .org
>
> for  more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web  site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 15:08:41 +0000
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Char retort question
> Message-ID:
>
> <1792401785-1370012918-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-273728598- at b5.c10.bise6.blackberry
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Dear Dan the Man
>
> What an interesting sounding system. I am pleased to hear you were running
> it under a slight positive pressure. What was the pressure and how did you
> regulate it?
>
> Thanks
> Crispin
> >From BB9900
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carefreeland at aol.com
> Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 10:58:08
> To: <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Char retort question
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 01:18:22 +0800
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves by the millions
> Message-ID: <0aab01ce5e22$dba51050$92ef30f0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7"
>
> Dear Paul O
>
>
>
> You have given another good example of the difference between a refractory
> material (which means it can withstand very high temperatures) and a
> material designed to resist thermal shock. High temperature shock
> resistance
> is not synonymous with 'refractory'. The word 'refractory' is often used
> incorrectly in stove discussion. Stoves do not necessarily benefit from
> having a refractory rating on the combustion chamber.
>
>
>
> Stove combustion chambers must resist rapid temperature changes in a short
> period of time at a moderate temperature (600-1000? C). Industrial ceramics
> designed for refractory applications often have a very slow heating rate,
> particularly when fired for the first time.
>
>
>
> When a refractory material is capable of doing both jobs (unusual) and it
> is
> new, it usually has to be fired at a very low rate - taking from 1 to 2
> days
> to reach max temperature when initially commissioned. This to remove
> moisture and in some cases, to do a final firing. Castable ceramics are all
> in this category (the ones I have seen, anyway). They have to breathe out
> the crystal water otherwise steam pockets break through the material.
>
>
>
> There is a paper on the ProBEC website explaining why ceramic parts crack
> and what to do about it.
>
>
>
> Stress and Strain:
>
> A Rocket type-stove has all the air coming from one side and this drives
> the
> flame against the back all of the combustion tube. This is about the most
> demanding possible arrangement as the temperature of the flame varies
> rapidly and frequently applying large internal stresses on the material
> particularly on the top 1mm which flakes off, even if the body does not
> crack (though usually it does).
>
>
>
> In order to minimise this effect, you can bring the air from both sides (as
> one list member has done recently with a distillation device) to counter
> each other and keep the flame in the centre. Xavier was also experimenting
> with this layout in Benin and was successful in bring the ceramic failure
> problem under control (right Xavier?).
>
>
>
> Of critical importance when creating a ceramic for stove combustion
> chambers
> is a low thermal expansion rate and a strong suppression of the silica
> transition from ? to ? phase at 573 degrees.
>
>
>
> The wall temperature can easily exceed 573? C but does not often reach 1200
> so the challenge is not a refractory one but an expansion issue. If a
> simple
> clay body is hot on one side and cool on the other (insulating) is it very
> likely to fail catastrophically after a few cycles.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
>
>
> Art,
>
> Not long ago I made reactor using refractory ceramic pipe. This pipe is
> designed to handle molten metal and is supposed to withstand temperatures
> up
> to 1,750 C. In less than two minutes into a TLUD burn with rice hulls, it
> cracked. It is hard to imagine that a reef-formed reactor will last very
> long.
>
> Paul Olivier
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
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> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 33, Issue 39
> **************************************
>



-- 
Art Donnelly
President SeaChar.Org
US Director, The Farm Stove Project
Proyecto Estufa Finca
<http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2eaJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsUU5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9SKkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfeifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpDpyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlMSqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoyAXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji73zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUliWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0>
"SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
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