[Stoves] blood analysis as heath impact certification for "clean" stoves
JF Rozis
rozisjf at club-internet.fr
Sat Apr 26 20:53:22 CDT 2014
Yes, but when I speak about CO in haemoglobin is as tracer that means the person at same time is inhaling a certain qty of PM. In France for categorization of wood space heating mass stove by default of PM direct measurement, it's accepted as first approach a relation (formula) between CO and PM.
Of course, if you compare a charcoal stove and a wood stove, for same CO level, not same PM level. Is it acceptable to compare standard climbing combustion with grate or no grate type and T-LUD combustion type with CO level as indicator by instance maybe not.
Nevertheless, if the population using a cleaner stove presents low level of CO in haemoglobin is surely a direct information of low level of PM inhaled (HAP, COV, ..), isn't it?
To be discussed..
JF Rozis
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Message du : 26/04/2014 20:01
De : stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
A : stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
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Sujet : Stoves Digest, Vol 44, Issue 31
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Today's Topics:
1. blood analysis as heath impact certification for "clean"
stoves (JF Rozis)
2. Re: 18 sec.:hot, clean, syngas combustion (David Young)
3. Re: blood analysis as heath impact certification for "clean"
stoves (ajheggie at gmail.com)
4. Re: blood analysis as heath impact certification for "clean"
stoves (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 06:26:46 +0200 (CEST)
From: JF Rozis
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Stoves] blood analysis as heath impact certification for
"clean" stoves
Message-ID: <31399043 .5479.1398486406014.javamail.www wsfrf1119>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Stovers,
I saw a long time ago very interesting discussions on blood analysis to check CO content within haemoglobin. I don't know if stove producers of cleaner no chimney? fuelwood stoves (whatever the tiers) are systematically specifying minimal air ventilation rate for using their equipments. My aim is to evaluate real health impact of those cleaner stoves (T-Lud, rocket, ..) equipments to be used with some precautions to avoid maintaining health problems. I think tiers scoring of cookstove is always linked with air ventilation rate for no chimney stoves??
Culturally, rural kitchen area in developing countries is a dirty place to be separated for the rest of the home, if integrated is LPG mainly used for richest ones (rural North Marocco by instance), usually well ventilated places in hot climates, more problematic in cold areas where health problems is a huge concern. The risk with so promoting & aggressive marketing I see on Internet on those cleaner stoves, people consider is less or more like LPG and they believe no risk to bring back the cooking place in living areas of the home.
But whatever this evolution, my request today is to know if blood analysis to compare two populations, one using existing stoves in traditional way (with real knowledge on smoke risks, use of adapted biomass,..) and one using those new technology permits to estimate real health impact. It's like for stove performance, field test is only tests giving you real fuel saving with a certain (limited) accuracy, for health impact only field health impact will permit you to check real impact. Is CO content in the haemoglobin a good tracer for health impact?
Is the procedure to limit bias and get minimal accuracy (sampling recommendations and procedures) existing and well validated? Some key persons specialized on this topic in view to prepare such work (feasibility, global cost, ..)
Thanks for your help
JF Rozis
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 23:44:38 -0500
From: David Young
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] 18 sec.:hot, clean, syngas combustion
Message-ID: <20140426044438 .ge9776 pobox.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 01:46:35PM -0400, Jock Gill wrote:
> I removed the top plate from my large FXJ burner, replaced the 5 inch
> central pipe with a 3 inch tall pipe (copper), and added an off the
> shelf stainless steel drain strainer with an OD of about 4 ? inches.
I bought some stainless drain strainers at the hardware store the other
day, thinking "these may be useful for stoves." A good hunch? :-)
I don't think I understand the physics of the strainer in the stove.
How is the strainer interacting with the system to improve combustion?
Dave
--
David Young
dyoung at pobox.com Urbana, IL (217) 721-9981
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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 10:39:45 +0100
From: ajheggie at gmail.com
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] blood analysis as heath impact certification for
"clean" stoves
Message-ID: <71vml9p5b5pqef8b102s611shtecro7ojj ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
[Default] On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 06:26:46 +0200 (CEST),JF Rozis
wrote:
>Is CO content in the haemoglobin a good tracer for health impact?
Interesting question: the major health impact from unvented stoves is
perceived to be the long term effects of the smaller particulates, PM
10 and PM2.5, these tend to be products of poor secondary combustion
allowing carbon rings to form rather than burn out to CO2 and they
combine to form Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (things like benzo-a
pyrene one of the pernicious carcinogens associated with tobacco
smoking and lung cancer).
These PACs in the particulates are particularly dangerous to the young
and growing.
So is there a direct relationship between PACs and CO concentration.
Is there a long term effect from exposure to low levels of CO, we see
people that stop smoking seem to have no long terms effects from CO
exposure.
AJH
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 18:06:23 +0800
From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] blood analysis as heath impact certification for
"clean" stoves
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