[Stoves] Trying new burner for TLUD's
Ronal W. Larson
rongretlarson at comcast.net
Tue Aug 26 10:26:28 CDT 2014
List cc Marc
Thanks very much for the quick addition of the “Google translation” button and your off-list help in showing where it is (at the bottom of the right hand column of your site - not the top). The translation saves a lot of time for those of us not so good with Spanish language.
I chose the TLUD area (http://cuinessolars.jimdo.com/cuines-gasificadores/) and have started to read. So far only read the 2007 excellent analytical study of TLUDs by Dr. Dale Andreatta - found as the last pdf on that page. I missed the Ethos conference that year - and suppose it should be also available at Prof. Mark Bryden’s Ethos site. I recommend this paper for those interested in the modeling of TLUDs. For one it has a nice plot of pressures. Dale has done some very nice analytical stove work over many years.
I’d like to see a similar modeling of types like that developed this year by Kirk Harris - which is MUCH shorter and apparently cleaner as well as having good TDR.
And thanks again Marc for your work and your site. I look forward to hearing/reading more.
Ron
On Aug 25, 2014, at 11:57 PM, Marquitusus <marquitusus at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Ron, thank you very much for your appreciations. I have been learning about combustion as much as I can, thanks to resources like this list, full of really expert people.
>
> I added to my website the "Google translation" button, on the right side, always visible. I know is not the optimal solution, but maybe it can help.
>
> Marc
>
> From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:40:16 -0600
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org; marquitusus at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Trying new burner for TLUD's
>
> Marc and list, cc Dean Still
>
> Your site is one of the best on stoves (including solar) of any around. Congratulations on somebody doing a lot of work. I still hope you will write to brag more on your and your group’s work.
>
> In wandering around with my very poor Spanish, I eventually found parts of the excellent 2011 stove comparison work (including solar) by Aprovecho and others, which in whole can be found at: http://www.pciaonline.org/files/Test-Results-Cookstove-Performance.pdf . We need an update that would include work like yours and others recently stated on this list. As good as this report is, it is not current - no TLUDs and only two fan stoves.
>
> Many websites have a button one can push to get an English translation. Anyone know if there is a way for Google translate to do this for Marc’s entire site, with less work on the part of users? Marc’s site has many wonderful videos and pdfs besides that above - including many on Marc’s own work.
>
> This reminds me that I only found today an Aprovecho newsletter from 28 July that reported on the Stove Camp results. I would normally send a site instead of the whole newsletter. Congratulations to Kirk Harris for his work reported below. The two Apro newsletters for August are equally valuable - but I can’t find a way to tell this list how to reach them. The archives end in 2013. The 22 August 2014 issue has a lead on heat transfer and air velocity.
>
> Dean (being cc’d) - can you help this list get to all of your (very good) past Newsletters?
>
> Ron
>
> The Aprovecho Newsletter - July 25th, 2014
> View this email in your browser
>
>
> Stove Camp and How Individuals Change the World
>
> Sometimes crowds push their governments to change course and then there are times when an individual makes the difference. It seems to me that technological advance is more dependent on individuals. A human being chews on a problem long enough to create a new solution that is clearly superior.
>
> At this Summer Stove Camp, Kirk Harris brought a ‘super-clean’ TLUD that scored in the high 3 to 4 range at both high and low power. The stove had a remarkable turn-down ratio. High power was above 5kW! The water boiled quickly and simply pushing a lever lowered the flame. His TLUD also has well developed swirl and high temperatures just below the pot assisting the heat transfer efficiency.
>
> Kirk had also brought a version of the stove to the Aprovecho Open House in January 2014 but by Summer he had evolved a true innovation.
>
> I think that one of the most important tenants at ARC is that almost anyone can solve technological problems. I'm living proof that stubbornness, not brilliance, is the most important requirement for progress on improving stoves. You also need sufficient time to make enough experiments to let the solution emerge.
>
> It is so heartwarming to see that Kirk persevered. It was one of many things that made Stove Camp so encouraging.
>
> Shotgun Data Again at Stove Camp
>
> This was one of my favorite Stove Camps because almost all the participants were from stove projects and spent the week doing tests to improve their stove. One $250 prize was for the ‘best’ TLUD. The other prize was for the ‘best’ bread oven. ‘Best’ was determined by voting on the last day. Flip Anderson may have won with her Barbeque Oven in no small part because treats poured out of the oven daily: bread, cookies, blackberry cobbler, brownies, etc.
>
> There were more than 25 Water Boiling tests accomplished under the emissions hood. (All of the Stove Camp IWA results will be seen soon atAprovecho.org.) Seven stoves scored Tier 4 for thermal efficiency. (Tier 4 is the highest score.) Kirk Harris’ stove also got a 4 for Low Power Specific Consumption! As seen before, 21 of the 25 stoves were in the Tier 4 category for High Power CO. All of the Low Power CO scores (7 tests) were also in Tier 4. Again, the data suggests that wood burning stoves generally don’t make a lot of CO unless there is too little air entering the combustion chamber and charcoal is being made.
>
> Although it’s easy to score well on the CO metrics it’s a lot harder to get a 4 on measures of PM. Only 7 stoves out of the 25 emitted a low enough amount (41mg/MJd) to get a 4 for High Power PM. Even TLUDs or forced air stoves have to be well tuned to be that clean. The gravimetric filter used to measure PM has to be white without a hint of grey after the water boils to get a 4. A representative sample of the smoke is pulled through the filter. Imagine how clean the stove sized cigarette would have to be to leave the filter almost completely white! Tier 4 is very clean.
> Copyright © 2014 Aprovecho Research Center, All rights reserved.
>
> Our mailing address is:
> Aprovecho Research Center
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> On Aug 25, 2014, at 10:40 AM, Marquitusus <marquitusus at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Ron, certainly, a central hole can be considered, but only in large diameters of TLUDS. In small diameters like mine (12,5 cm), the fire achieved with this burner is good in distributing the heat on the bottom of the pot.
>
> My website is www.cuinessolars.jimdo.com, here you can see my work, lately centered in TLUDS an efficient ovens.
>
> Marc
>
> From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:30:15 -0600
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org; marquitusus at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Trying new burner for TLUD's
>
> Marc cc stoves
>
> 1. I liked your short your tube video. One possible extension is to put one or a few additional holes in the center - enough to add a similar amount of heat to the center of the cook pot (assuming uniformity over the cook pot bottom is good).
>
> 2. In trying to learn more of your work, I see that you communicate via the GACC site. I also found (and lost) a site all in Spanish - maybe a solar cooking site? Maybe in Barcelona? Can you describe more of your stove goals?
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> On Aug 24, 2014, at 2:54 AM, Marquitusus <marquitusus at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi stovers,
>
> I never liked (for cooking purposes) the single-thick flame that comes out of the concentrator ring that use most of the TLUD's designs, because you get a narrow over-heated spot in the bottom of the cooking pot, and in a result of that, you don't get a good heat distribution in the pot.
>
> I made a new "diffuser" burner, which gives a circular flame area, instead of a single one.
>
> http://youtu.be/mhl6tt2A4T0
>
>
> Anyone knows any other works on this aspect?
>
> Thanks
> Marc
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