[Stoves] Two problems regarding WHO Guidelines ....was Re: A "Cut and Paste" Summary of the 2014 WHO Guidelines
Roger Samson
rogerenroute at yahoo.ca
Sun Dec 7 14:47:34 CST 2014
Paul Let me give you an update of our efforts to work on sustainable cooking systems so my intervention is a bit more positive. I just am very concerned the stove technology focus is not balanced with other efforts to address the air quality problem. I wish the Global Alliance would use Results Based Management to address the problem as it would give better results than this emphasis on complex stove technology. If there is one thing I learned in 17 years as a development specialist is that embracing confusing complexity has a low sustainability compared to embracing profound simplicity. CONFUSING COMPLEXITY is high tech imported stoves, relying on power driven fans and chimneys that are not repairable locally. PROFOUND SIMPLICITY is locally made stoves, of local natural materials in well ventilated kitchens (or outdoor kitchens) that are repaired locally. In rural sub-saharan africa the more you embrace PROFOUND SIMPLICITY the better! We continue to work on installing clay brick based stoves in Gambia and Senegal. We are working at improving ventilation in the rural kitchens, or if households choose, they build the stove outdoors under a covered roof. The cooking system costs $10 installed, is built with local materials and by local masons. It is repaired by local masons using local materials. The cooks have less exposure due to the improved cookstove technology, well ventilated (or ideally outdoor) kitchen and faster cooking cycles. http://www.reap-canada.com/online_library/IntDev/Brochure%20-%20REAP%20Noflay%20Clay%20Brick%20Stove.pdf http://www.vrac.iastate.edu/ethos/files/ethos2013/Room%201/Saturday%20PM/The%20Noflay%20Clay%20Brick%20Stove%20Lessons%20Learned%20from%20Pilot%20Implementation%20in%20West%20Africa.pdf We also are working more on sustainable fuelwood supplies. In Sub-Saharan africa there are major problems with fuelwood supply. ICRISAT has a great program to introduce improved pigeon peas globally. We are working to use pigeon peas as a strategy to provide food, fodder, erosion control, soil fertility and FUELWOOD. The small branch fuelwood is ideal for use in the REAP-clay brick stove. I really like Pigeon peas as a promising fuel resource but you need a good stove to effectively use that small branchwood. http://www.icrisat.org/impacts/impact-stories/Icrisat-impacts-42.htm best regards Roger Samson
On Sunday, December 7, 2014 1:38 PM, Roger Samson <rogerenroute at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hi Paul As I have stated previously on many occasions the air quality issue can be resolved more efficiently if a results based management approach is taken to address the problem. Sadly efforts to improve clean air have turned into a high tech stove race and holistic approaches have been marginalized. The current approach is great for the engineering olympics but its an ineffective sustainable development strategy to help poor people adopt affordable cooking systems that will enable them to breath cleaner air. Roger Samson
On Saturday, December 6, 2014 10:51 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
Stovers,
Five days and no comments? So I will re-state the two issues that are presented in the original messages (below):
1. EVEN WITH CLEAN STOVES, the CO and PM levels are higher than expected, with probable causes being the uses of multiple stoves, lamps, etc.
Therefore, regarding health, we could be finding that the efforts to have ULTRA-CLEAN stoves (LPG, Solar, Electricity, biogas, alcohol) could be sufficiently undermined by household/ambient conditions that the improvements of the health of individuals are not being attained, regardless of the cost of those stoves and their fuels.
This is NOT a reason to stop efforts for clean stoves, but it could be a reason to focus more on getting better "stove stacking" with several reasonably improved stoves instead of putting too much emphasis/financial resources on having an ultra-clean stove placed in an setting without other improvements.
In other words, the recent increased recommended strict reduction of emissions for health purposes might be sooooo tight that broader changes in societal issues (life-styles such as stove stacking, windows open, different light sources, etc) become more important than having the ultra clean stoves.
2. Chimneys are insufficiently understood and/or insufficiently consistent in operation concerning emissions. And there is an expectation of (or allowance of, or the modelling for) 25% of emissions coming into to room.
That this value (25%) is arrived at as the average value between 1% and 50% seems very crude. IMO, a stove with a chimney that lets more then 40% of emissions enter the room is hardly deserving to be even called a chimney stove. Not even 20% should be entering the room!!!!!
Such an expectation or assumption in a model clearly works against a stove with a good chimney arrangement and can favor a stove with a bad chimney arrangement.
There could be more to this chimney story than is currently evident. But until it is clarified, questions will continue to be raised.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com On 12/2/2014 9:07 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
#yiv1974303126 -- filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv1974303126 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv1974303126 p.yiv1974303126MsoNormal, #yiv1974303126 li.yiv1974303126MsoNormal, #yiv1974303126 div.yiv1974303126MsoNormal {margin:0mm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv1974303126 a:link, #yiv1974303126 span.yiv1974303126MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1974303126 a:visited, #yiv1974303126 span.yiv1974303126MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv1974303126 p.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraph, #yiv1974303126 li.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraph, #yiv1974303126 div.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraph {margin-top:0mm;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;line-height:106%;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv1974303126 p.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst, #yiv1974303126 li.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst, #yiv1974303126 div.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst {margin-top:0mm;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:0mm;margin-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:106%;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv1974303126 p.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle, #yiv1974303126 li.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle, #yiv1974303126 div.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle {margin-top:0mm;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:0mm;margin-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:106%;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv1974303126 p.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraphCxSpLast, #yiv1974303126 li.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraphCxSpLast, #yiv1974303126 div.yiv1974303126MsoListParagraphCxSpLast {margin-top:0mm;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;line-height:106%;font-size:11.0pt;}#yiv1974303126 span.yiv1974303126EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv1974303126 .yiv1974303126MsoChpDefault {}#yiv1974303126 filtered {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv1974303126 div.yiv1974303126WordSection1 {}#yiv1974303126 filtered {}#yiv1974303126 filtered {}#yiv1974303126 filtered {}#yiv1974303126 filtered {}#yiv1974303126 filtered {}#yiv1974303126 filtered {}#yiv1974303126 filtered {}#yiv1974303126 filtered {}#yiv1974303126 filtered {}#yiv1974303126 filtered {}#yiv1974303126 ol {margin-bottom:0mm;}#yiv1974303126 ul {margin-bottom:0mm;}#yiv1974303126 Thanks Dean – that is very helpful. Stovers: there are some issues really worth discussing in this document. Levels of CO and PM higher than expected in clean fuel studies 9.) Even allowing for variability and differing circumstances, it is clear that the measured levels of PM and CO in homes using clean fuels are much higher than predicted. This does not undermine the model, but points towards other explanations. These include continued use of the traditional stove (even in stove/fuel evaluation studies), along with the new one (known as stacking), other emission sources in and around the home (kerosene lamps, waste burning), and external sources such as fuel combustion from other homes and other sources of combustion contributing to outdoor air pollution entering all homes. (pg.123) That is of great concern to me because if the model is not predictive, it means predictions of improvement are also not going to be reasonably accurate. It does however open up a new possibility which we are exploring at the moment in Indonesia: the use of specialised solid fuel cookers for dedicated tasks. TLUD stoves are highly suited to boiling water in a single-function device. The use of such a ‘kettle’ combined with LPG would make for a very clean combination. This should be explored as an intervention strategy that can achieve much faster results than that anticipated by ‘replace the stove and fuel’. Model based on 75% of pollution going up the chimney 10.) The emissions model allows for ventilation (with a flue or chimney) by assuming (based on empirical data from several studies and countries) that the fraction of total emissions entering the room lies between 1% and 50% with a mean of 25% and standard deviation of 10%. On average, therefore, it is expected that emissions entering the room from vented stoves are 75% lower than with unvented stoves. (pg.123) Twenty five percent? This is an unreasonable assumption. Good heavens. No chimney stove operating like that would be used in any self-respecting traditional home in Mongolia or Indonesia or South Africa or Canada for that matter. No wonder the chimney stove ‘forecast’ of their model emissions into the home has such a poor result. Was this perhaps deliberate in order to argue that only LPG and electricity can suffice? Seriously – why would such an assumption be adopted, followed by a claim that chimney stoves ‘can’t meet the emissions requirements into the room’? They could easily be met by using a proper chimney. I hope this is not the beginning of a trend to misrepresent the performance of clean burning solid fuel stoves. Gasifiers burn solid fuels – anything from peat to wood to pellets. To label everything as inherently ‘dirty’ is unreasonable. Charcoal is a very clean fuel in terms of PM even in a bad stove. In a good one, the CO is really low as well. I was already worried when I saw in several places references to ‘clean fuels’ as if the stove was not an inseparable element of clean combustion. There is no such this as a ‘clean fuel’. Any fuel can be burned badly if it is put into a crummy stove. As always, if a stove is tested out of context, the results are suspect. Regards Crispin +++++++++++ Hi All, I've attached a "Cut and Paste" Summary of the new WHO Guidelines. Best, Dean
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20141207/12d4776e/attachment.html>
More information about the Stoves
mailing list