[Stoves] FW: nothing new under the sun! fotos !
Energies Naturals C.B.
Energies Naturals C.B.
Mon Jan 13 18:53:56 CST 2014
Dear stovers,
last week in Budapest, we visited the very interesting agricultural museum.
Actually, you could call it "cultural museum" and it is worth while
visiting.
There we found this neolithic portable cooking stove.
Since it was a sunday, we could not inquire more, but perhaps somebody else
could?
I would be very interested in knowing more about it.
best
Rolf
On Wed, 08 Jan 2014 13:58:13 -0600
Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
> Kevin,
>
> I want to know about any and all reasonable devices that work. Reality
> now trumps specifications and expenses of R&D.
>
> Personally, I lack the mechanical knowledge and the time to do this
> myself. But I KNOW it is important, and I turn to my friends on the
> Listservs, with gratitude for whatever can be accomplished.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
> On 1/8/2014 12:45 PM, Kevin wrote:
> >
> > Dear Paul
> > As per my previous e-mail, (copy appended below the ******** line)
> > you really should describe the job you want done, so that designers
> > would at least have some "starting specifications" on which to base
> > their estimated cost.
> > Do you want someone to design and build them for you to re-sell, or
> > do you want a suitable "set of plans" that you could sell or give to
> > people.? Or perhaps you have some other arrangement in mind?
> > Best wishes,
> > Kevin
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Paul Anderson <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> > *To:* gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> ; Discussion of
> > biomass cooking stoves <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> ;
> > biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com> ; Bob
> > Fairchild <mailto:solarbobky at yahoo.com> ; Ron Vanetten
> > <mailto:rsvanetten at hotmail.com>
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 08, 2014 2:17 PM
> > *Subject:* [biochar] Re: [Gasification] Chunking wood for small
> > scale biochar production, fotos !
> >
> > To all,
> >
> > Yes, it certainly seems to be a chunker. Yes, the wood seem
> > weak, but the machine seems adequate.
> >
> > See also:
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J3hsWyuyTg
> >
> > Seem to be in some Slavic language? Do we have any further
> > information? All seems sufficiently inexpensive for many of us,
> > and could be appropriate for someone in a developing country to
> > make a living going around chunking people's low-value branches.
> > And there seem to be other videos suggested by YouTube.
> >
> > I request assistance from someone(s) with mechanical talents to
> > help bring such technology to our understands (and ability to
> > replicate and improve as necessary).
> >
> > The issue is not the power source (electric or small gasoline or
> > ??). The issue is the breaking and/or chunking of such biomass.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> > Email:psanders at ilstu.edu
> > Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> > Website:www.drtlud.com
> >
> > On 1/7/2014 10:35 PM, Pete & Sheri wrote:
> >>
> >> I'd certainly call that one a chunker. But I noticed that at
> >> least one of the branches broke in half as it was fed in. Maybe
> >> some pretty rotten wood?
> >>
> >> If the machine can do that kind of work with solid wood it seems
> >> to be a good contender.
> >>
> >> At least for a little while. (It does jump around some).
> >>
> >> Pete Stanaitis
> >>
> >> ----------------
> >>
> >> *From:*Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On Behalf
> >> Of *Cesar Casanova
> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 07, 2014 9:25 PM
> >> *To:* Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> >> *Subject:* Re: [Gasification] Chunking wood for small scale
> >> biochar production, fotos !
> >>
> >> Hi, Is this a chunker or wood chipper?
> >>
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4GUEq_ubkw
> >>
> >> Cesar
> >>
> >>
> >> *******************************************************************
> >> ************************
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> *From:* Kevin <mailto:kchisholm at seaside.ns.ca>
> >> *To:* biochar at yahoogroups.com
> >> <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com> ; Mark Ludlow
> >> <mailto:mark at ludlow.com> ; 'energiesnaturals'
> >> <mailto:energiesnaturals at gmx.de> ; 'Discussion of biomass
> >> cooking stoves' <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> ;
> >> 'Bob Fairchild' <mailto:solarbobky at yahoo.com> ; 'Ron
> >> Vanetten' <mailto:rsvanetten at hotmail.com>
> >> *Sent:* Monday, January 06, 2014 2:46 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [biochar] Re: [Stoves] Chaff cutters and wood
> >> choppers
> >>
> >> Dear Paul
> >> The request is like the question: "How long is a piece of
> >> string"? :-) There are many different potential chaff cutter
> >> and wood chopper designs. There are as many as there are
> >> "potential applications."
> >> Some of the variables may include:
> >> * Production rate required.
> >> * Manual or machine power
> >> * Feed material
> >> * Desired "cut product size and shape.
> >> * Need for screening and sizing of product or not?
> >> * Portability
> >> * Durability
> >> * Potential annual sales for each specific product
> >> * Permissible price for a product or specific device to
> >> accomplish a specific task
> >> * Etc.
> >> These variables, and the "necessary features" required, must
> >> be specified before it is possible to configure a suitable
> >> design and to estimate a cost "at the factory gate."
> >> So, if you required a "cutter" or "chopper" to make a fuel
> >> suitable for TLUD's, you should specify all the relevant
> >> properties and features that would be necessary for a
> >> Designer to configure a product design that would meet your
> >> needs. However, the Designer should know how much the
> >> Customer could afford to pay for the final product, so that
> >> he will know if it is even possible to build a product that
> >> will be affordable to the Target Customer. Additionally, the
> >> Designer needs to know the expected sales volume per year, so
> >> that he can figure in the economies of scale in developing
> >> prices.
> >> Best wishes,
> >> Kevin
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> *From:* Paul Anderson <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> >> *To:* Mark Ludlow <mailto:mark at ludlow.com> ;
> >> biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
> >> ; 'energiesnaturals' <mailto:energiesnaturals at gmx.de> ;
> >> 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
> >> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> ; 'Bob
> >> Fairchild' <mailto:solarbobky at yahoo.com> ; 'Ron Vanetten'
> >> <mailto:rsvanetten at hotmail.com>
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 04, 2014 4:07 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [biochar] Re: [Stoves] Chaff cutters and
> >> wood choppers
> >>
> >> Mark,
> >>
> >> I am not good at estimating price points, and the number
> >> of variations (feeder rollers, flywheel, thickness of
> >> sticks) are so numerous that to say a price without
> >> specifying all the rest might not be very realistic.
> >> So, as a NON-engineer, I request assistance from other
> >> readers about price vs features.
> >>
> >> Even if I purchased one for where I live (Illinois, USA),
> >> my usage would be limited, and not related to amounts
> >> like tons. And to export from Mexico to Africa would be
> >> in the same league as importing cutters from India,
> >> meaning: difficult.
> >>
> >> I would like to know what could be accomplished at
> >> different price points. Is that a reasonable place to
> >> start? (I hope others will comment. And maybe
> >> something can be accomplished.)
> >>
> >> Mark, where are you in Mexico, and when did you move
> >> there? Greetings to your wife.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
> >> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> >> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu
> >> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> >> Website:www.drtlud.com
> >>
> >> On 1/4/2014 2:23 AM, Mark Ludlow wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Paul,
> >>>
> >>> It would be useful if you could state a price point that
> >>> would make equipment like this realistic. The machine
> >>> Rolf describes is typical, but I appreciate the fact
> >>> that limbs and trunks are fed at an angle. Shearing at
> >>> an angle reduces the shear force required and thus
> >>> increases the output per unit of power input. I could
> >>> build a no-frills (except for safety systems) chipper
> >>> like the one Rolf describes, here in México, at cost, if
> >>> you are interested. México is the productivity-adjusted,
> >>> lowest-cost producer in the world, as of 2014. Yet many
> >>> are unemployed.
> >>>
> >>> If you tell me some number, say $/MT of green input,
> >>> this gives us a target to design against. I think that
> >>> energy-storage (flywheel) to accommodate impulse loading
> >>> may work, but the amount of energy required is easily
> >>> calculated and is reflected in the nominal hourly-input
> >>> rating.
> >>>
> >>> I will support development costs (as a non-profit) if
> >>> you will tell me there is a market for XXX Machines at
> >>> XXX Cost on the horizon.
> >>>
> >>> Buen Viajo en Africa!
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>>
> >>> *From:*biochar at yahoogroups.com
> >>> [mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul
> >>> Anderson
> >>>
> > __._,_.___
> > Reply via web post
> >
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyMms1dTV2BF9TAzk3MzU
5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxNTk1MwRzZWMDZnR
yBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzODkyMDY3MTk-?act=reply&messageNum=15953>
> > Reply to sender
> >
<mailto:kchisholm at seaside.ns.ca?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20Re%3A%20%5BG
asification%5D%20Chunking%20wood%20for%20small%20scale%20biochar%20productio
n%2C%20fotos%20%21>
> > Reply to group
> >
<mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20Re%3A%20%5BG
asification%5D%20Chunking%20wood%20for%20small%20scale%20biochar%20productio
n%2C%20fotos%20%21>
> > Start a New Topic
> >
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmc2xmcGlzBF9TAzk3MzU
5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN
0aW1lAzEzODkyMDY3MTk->
> > Messages in this topic
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/message/15952;_ylc=X3oDMTM3NX
> > VmbGFyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMg
> > Rtc2dJZAMxNTk1MwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzODkyMDY3MTkEdHBjSW
> > QDMTU5NTI->
> > (2)
> >
> > Recent Activity:
> >
> > * New Members
> >
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnYW5nYm9xBF9TAzk3
MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJy
cwRzdGltZQMxMzg5MjA2NzE5?o=6>
> > 1
> >
> > Visit Your Group
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaWJmajY5BF9TAzk3
> > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDdnRsBHNs
> > awN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzODkyMDY3MTk->
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMHBkM2tlBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdyc
> > ElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3Rpb
> > WUDMTM4OTIwNjcxOQ-->
> >
> > Switch to: Text-Only
> > <mailto:biochar-traditional at yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Deliver
> > y%20Format:%20Traditional>,
> > Daily Digest
> > <mailto:biochar-digest at yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20D
> > igest>
> > . Unsubscribe
> > <mailto:biochar-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> .
> > Terms of Use <http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/> .
> > Send us Feedback
> > <mailto:ygroupsnotifications at yahoogroups.com?subject=Feedback%20on%2
> > 0the%20redesigned%20individual%20mail%20v1>
> > .
> >
> > __,_._,___
>
--
Energies Naturals C.B. <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Kamera-01.-14-Budapest-,-Hacker-100.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 322419 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20140113/9d052eb7/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Kamera-01.-14-Budapest-,-Hacker-101.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 329202 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20140113/9d052eb7/attachment-0001.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Kamera-01.-14-Budapest-,-Hacker-102.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 337168 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20140113/9d052eb7/attachment-0002.jpg>
More information about the Stoves
mailing list