[Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized
Anh
ntanh at greengenvn.com
Fri Jan 17 03:59:45 CST 2014
Dear Dean and Michael,
I tried to make pellets from grass, straw, rice husk, leaves too but it was
very hard, so I came up with a stove that burning those biomass w/o making
pellets. I put all those biomass into biomass boxes (metal box) and put the
boxes on the side of the stove, still need dry wood to start but with 2
biomass boxes used, you can replace 2/3 the woods with grasses or whatever
biomass you have (ofc you will not get the same energy as using 100% wood).
Another good thing is that all biomass inside the boxes will turn into
biochar when the cooking is finished. Pls check out our website
www.greengenstove.com for more detail.
As for dry wood, as the outside stove temperature is 90-100oC (at max), you
can dry the woods putting around the stove without burning it. Or you can
put wood inside the biomass boxes, after 1-2 hrs cooking it will be dried,
even partially turn to charcoal.
I m not against making pellets/briquettes but I believe that the
pellets/briquettes would be quite expensive for low income people, in
Vietnam, its surely more expensive than woods (ofc because we have woods).
Also I m looking an easy way to burn the lose charcoal (from straw, grass,
leaves, rice husks, saw dust,... that our stove can make) without making it
into briquettes, that would help a lot encouraging people to utilize argi
wastes to cooking instead of burning it on open fields.
Regards,
Anh Nguyen
General Director
Green Generation
Hanoi, Vietnam
Tel +84 91242-6666
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 20:18:08 -0600
From: Michael Mahowald <memahowald at hotmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized
stove efforts
Message-ID: <BLU404-EAS757287E90F12993CD662E3D2B90 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Dean
I have used many TLUD stoves and fed large groups many times with them. I
also have built many ovens that use the same heat after stove top cooking.
The stoves all work great. The problem getting people to use them is keeping
enough dry wood available.
We have not tested vetiver grass pellets yet. But we have tested switch
grass which worked better and hotter than woodpellets. All pellets
consistently burn better than different size and types of wood much less
biomass as stoves are tuned for each.
If you expect the world will switch to TLUD stoves by twisting grass by
hand, these stoves will never takeover charcoal.
When we make pellets using grass pellets for syngas it will be cheaper than
diesel fuel and it can take over charcoal for preferred fuel.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 15, 2014, at 11:21 AM, "Dean Still" <deankstill at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Perhaps experimenters could try other methods than making pellets? A very
light fuel like grass can end up costing a lot to make into pellets. How
about twisting the grasses into rope? Then cut into small sections?
>
> All Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Michael Mahowald
<memahowald at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Trees are important but fuel for stoves should be from Grass! I have
worked in Haiti for 15 years and the erosion is so bad in some areas that
reforestation projects fail because they cannot keep them watered enough in
the dry seasons. The only way to bring back the soil and hold moisture is
planting vetiver grass.
>>
>> Grass energy precisely grass pellets are what is needed for tlud stoves
please look at my website
>> to understand what I am talking about. We want to work with all Tlud
stoves but the real problem is the fuel!
>> http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/
>>
>> Our solution fixes many problems as you will see.
>>
>> Michael E. Mahowald
>> President
>> Haiti Reconstruction International
>> 952-220-6814
>>
>>
>> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 11:39:36 +0300
>> From: cookswelljikos at gmail.com
>> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
efforts
>>
>> Dear Ronal -
>>
>> Thank you very much for your kind words.
>>
>> I am very concerned about the woodfuel supply chain, after all, if I make
improved efficient stoves that make its easier and cheaper for people to
burn tree's with, it is a wise investment for me to do all I can to help my
customers grow more trees.
>>
>> I hope we can encourage more players in the cookstove industry to join us
in advocating, promoting and being involved in sustainable woodfuel focused
forestry projects.
>>
>> We actually had made a few prototypes of char producing and char using
stoves a few years ago but discontinued due to low market demand.
>>
>> Teddy
>>
>> Cookswell Jikos
>> www.cookswell.co.ke
>> www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
>> www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
>> Mobile: +254 700 380 0 09
>> Mobile: +254 700 905 913
>> P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Ronal W. Larson
<rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Teddy et al:
>>
>> I have just visited your web site and was very impressed. You
obviously have a big concern about charcoal being produced badly - so thank
for that. I like your comments on where/how to manufacture stoves.
>>
>> You also look like a great company to manufacture char-making stoves.
Is that possibly on the horizon for cookswelljikos?
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2014, at 11:47 AM, Cookswell Jikos <cookswelljikos at gmail.com&g
t; wrote:
>>
>> Dear Richard, Salaams,
>>
>> I did meet Charles briefly once, but that was many years ago - I do try
to stay in touch as much as my work schedule allows with as many other
stovies in Kenya as I can but we are all a busy lot and dont get to see each
other enough.
>>
>> In regards to your email above, I have found that at the end of the day,
whether or not the the stove was made in either of the manufacturing systems
discussed, it remains one of the last things on a long list of reasons why
my customers part with their hard earned money to buy a Cookswell stove.
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Teddy
>>
>>
>>
>> Cookswell Jikos
>> www.cookswell.co.ke
>> www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
>> www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
>> Mobile: +254 700 380 009
>> Mobile: +254 700 905 913
>> P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Richard Stanley
<rstanley at legacyfound.org> wrote:
>> Habari gani, Teddy,
>> Did you ever hear of Charles Onyando over in Kangemi? He passed away a
few years ago but was very active with stoves himself and he worked with
your father for a while in testing and design.
>> Richard Stanley
>> www.legacyfound.org
>> Indani ya nchi ya US, kwa sasa
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2014, at 4:27 AM, Cookswell Jikos wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> This is a very interesting discussion that I have been happily following
during my travels this last week. I find that di scussions like these help
to define the complexities of the biomass cookstove sector. I often wonder
what other non-electric domestic cooking appliances attract such passionate
players and great thinkers in their respective product lines.
>>
>> I personally have been lucky enough to have been somewhat involved in
both ends of this question of centralized and decentralized manufacture of
cookstoves - my late dad, Dr. Max Kinyanjui, would tell me of how once he
almost quite the KCJ (Kenya Ceramic Jiko) project when centralized
production was initially suggested, and thankfully he did not. Today I am
currently looking into designing flat pack systems for KCJ's and other
associated sheet metal cut outs ( charcoal making drum kilns, charcoal
baking ovens etc.) that can be locally assembled by networks of existing
manufactures; this is mainly to reduce raw material transport and waste
issues, increase standardization levels, increase customer/stove maker
interactions and to reduce end user costs.
>>
>> I feel that one major design achievement to enhance stove dissemination
(but is perhaps a bit bad business) is to create something that is so useful
and easy to use, understand and make money off of, to huge range of
potential customers that replication, sometimes for the better, many times
for the worse, snowballs the technology into the kitchens of the ones
needing it most.
>>
>> To the Cookswell/Kinyanjui family, seeing our inventions and designs
being copied and sold in many countries by many levels of manufacturers is
one of the most satisfactory feelings of being good stove makers. We also
very much hope that more people will also begin to take the time to
appreciate the value of conducting a holistic manufacturing process that
gives due consideration to the life cycle analysis of the product(s) in
question.
>>
>> And as we continue exploring not only the stove, but the entire
''seed-to-ash'' cycle of household biomass energy, I would just like to send
a vote of thanks to all those who actively contribute and manage this list
serve, it is very good stove reading.
>>
>> Happy new years and all the best to all,
>>
>> Teddy Kinyanjui
>>
>> Sustainability Director
>>
>> Cookswell Jikos
>> www.cookswell.co.ke
>> www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
>> www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
>> Mobile: +254 700 380 009
>> Mobile: +254 700 905 913
>> P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Ranyee Chiang
<rchiang at cleancookstoves.org> wrote:
>> Interesting topics for further discussion at ETHOS. A good way to frame
this discussion may be to think about ways that the different types of
efforts can be integrated together, or how they can learn from each other.
Certainly from the Global Alliance's point of view, both types of efforts
are important and require different types of tailored support. It would be
useful to hear some discussion about the specifics of the tailored support
that is needed in each case. And overall, I think that a discussion focused
&quo t;and" not "versus" would be quite interesting.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ranyee
>> ________________________________________
>> From: ethos-bounces at vrac.iastate.edu <ethos-bounces at vrac.iastate.edu> on
behalf of Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 3:33 PM
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; ETHOS - Listserve
>> Subject: Re: [Ethos] [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
efforts
>>
>> Ben,
>>
>> Please provide more info about that suggestion/recommendation. When was
>> it, and to whom? Any viable contacts that could be reached for further
>> clarification?
>>
>> In general, the decentralized elements are not "organized" and have far
>> fewer funds. Much of it is lobbying and money to get decisions that
>> favor those who can lobby and have the money already. Because that is
>> not likely to change, what strategies are possible for decentralized
>> efforts even in relatively small geographic areas?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>
>> On 12/31/2013 8:51 PM, Ben Blevins wrote:
>> > Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various reasons, there
consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce the message of
mass production and distribution by development industry players.
>> >
>> > B
>> >
>> >
>> > On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dear Paal, and all,
>> >>
>> >> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think the cards
are stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
>> >>
>> >> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have decentralized
production of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the "model" of
the affluent world is for centralized industrial production. That
centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC and WB and many
who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve major
issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of the
funding. And they present very convincing arguments. (If they could not,
they would not be in control of the situation.)
>> >>
>> >> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized efforts having
major impacts. Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko (KCJ) is one
example.
>> >>
>> >> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others step
forward wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
>> >>
>> >> Paul
>> >>
>> >> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> >> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>> >> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> >> Website: www.drtlud.com
>> >>
>> >> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
>> >>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
>> >>> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to participate,
but after 30 years working with task and followed the discussion at Stove
list I have come to this conclusion.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or
decentralized activities regarding fuel an d stove production with a view on
the enormous unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration
the high demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass
fuel for simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and
agriculture energy production together collection of waste biomass of
different types will give a lot of new needed jobs.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? Use of local resources
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? Biochar production by cooking.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support the low
income groups all around the worl
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> Ethos at vrac.iastate.edu
>> http://cannon-mail.vrac.iastate.edu/mailman/listinfo/ethos
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: 16 Jan 2014 02:58:29 -0000
From: "Choppalli Venkata Krishna" <krishnacreat1 at rediffmail.com>
To: "stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Opportunities in Indonesia
Message-ID:
<1389828099.S.21703.11813.H.WUNyaXNwaW4gUGVtYmVydG9uLVBpZ290dABbU3RvdmVzXSBP
cHBvcnR1bml0aWVzIGluIEluZG9uZXNpYQ__.RU.rfs281,
rfs281, 660,
29.f4-234-181.old.1389841109.29615 at webmail.rediffmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear Crispin
Thanks for the valuable information
- KrishnaFrom: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
<crispinpigott at gmail.com>Sent: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 04:51:39 To:
"'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>Subject: [Stoves] Opportunities in
Indonesia
Dear Friends
In preparation for an upcoming improved stove project in Indonesia, the
following research was unearthed about sizes and types of pot in common use.
This will be helpful if you are planning to create a stove that will be
useful in the far East.
Regards
Crispin
Information about the household cooking utensils, collected in 2004 in
Wonokromo Village, Pleret Sub-district, Bantul District, Yogyakarta
Province.
The average diameter of HH cooking utensils is
1. Wok = 18 ? 40 cm
2. Pot = 18 ? 32 cm
3. Soblok = 27 cm (this is a steamer with a perforated place about 70mm
above the bottom)
4. Kettle = 18 cm
Wonokromo?s cooking utensil diameters (cm)
No. Name
&nbs
p;
&nbs
p; Wok
Pot Soblok Kettle
1 &nb
sp; Ibu Istikomah
&nbs
p;
45
32 27
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs
p;
27 18
2 &nb
sp; Ibu Rubiah
&nbs
p;
40
32
27 18
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs
p;
27 27
3 &nb
sp; Ibu Martini
&nbs
p;
40
27
27 18
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs
p;
18 18
4
Ibu Rosidah
&nbs
p;
40
27
27 18
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs
p;
27 18
5 &nb
sp; Ibu Bariah
&nbs
p;
40
27
40 18
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs
p;
27 18
6 &nb
sp; Ibu Sari Prapto Utomo
27
27
27 18
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs
p;
18 18
7 &nb
sp; Bpk. Parjono
&nbs
p;
40
27
27 18
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs
p;
18 18
8 &nb
sp; Bpk. Wahyudi
&nbs
p;
40
36
27 18
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs
p;
18 27
9 &nb
sp; Ibu Yati
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
27
27
27 18
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs
p;
18 18
10 Bpk. Kartiran
&nbs
p;
27
27
27 18
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs
p;
18 18
11 Ibu Waringan
&nbs
p;
27
18
27 18
&nbs
p; &n
bsp;
&nbs
p;
45 32
_______________________________________________Stoves mailing listto Send a
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 21:48:08 -0600
From: Art Donnelly <art.donnelly at seachar.org>
To: biochar at yahoogroups.com
Cc: Discussion of biomass <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] "Maker Movement"
Message-ID:
<CALyHvqpZoj4i0vAr93n0Ou+xgS9vwSCdkgwbjPSkPHeL1_UqWw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Ron,
Bravo! The maker movement has potential for "disruptive innovation". See
the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_innovation
It is the progeny of our community tool libraries and cooperative art and
craft spaces. In our society sharing was a disruptive innovation 40 years
ago.
"The term "*disruptive technology*" has been widely used as a synonym of
"disruptive innovation", but the latter is now preferred, because market
disruption has been found to be a function usually not of technology itself
but rather of its changing application."
My last metal studio space was a sublet in a "maker space" in Seattle.
Seattle is a hot-spot for the maker movement and I benefited a lot from
that experience. I think the evolution of the Estufa Finca biochar stove
did as well. I will be in Seattle for a few days before the ETHOS
conference, I plan to share a new prototype stove at the conference. I will
be fine tuning it at the Ballard Maker Space next week. So, I can not 3-D
print a stove...yet, but now I can realistically dream about doing it and
that is the important 1st step in making it happen.
Art
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Ronal W. Larson
<rongretlarson at comcast.net>wrote:
>
>
> Lists:
>
> On a different list, there has been mention of the ?maker movement?!
> I have a vague understanding, as I saw a bit (first year this year) at
> grand-daughter?s high school (3-d printing for instance). I can see lots
> of potential in the stoves and biochar areas. Anyone utilizing this new
> very low cost resource to develop products?
>
> A video on this brand new (claimed to be very disruptive) activity is
> at: http://fora.tv/2013/09/22/the_maker_movement_manifesto
>
> Ron
>
> __._,_.___
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--
Art Donnelly
President SeaChar.Org
US Director, The Farm Stove Project
Proyecto Estufa Finca
<http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2e
aJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsU
U5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9S
KkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfe
ifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpD
pyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlM
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"SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
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Message: 10
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 22:33:29 -0600
From: Art Donnelly <art.donnelly at seachar.org>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
efforts
Message-ID:
<CALyHvqocm_LdfdMLgLsDki0h7Lb99Demtt04FUstu2cCPau=fw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Paul,
Thank you for the rallying call and the focus you have brought to this
issue. I think a lot of us are looking for a "third way" approach. You
could have an integrated network of decentralized projects sharing
resources and knowledge. It could be possible to have the collective
buying power that an integrated network could provide, while retaining
flexibility of local control to meet local needs.
I look forward to talking about this in depth at ETHOS and beyond.
Art
--
Art Donnelly
President SeaChar.Org
US Director, The Farm Stove Project
Proyecto Estufa Finca
<http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2e
aJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsU
U5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9S
KkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfe
ifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpD
pyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlM
SqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoy
AXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji7
3zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUl
iWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0>
"SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
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Message: 11
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 10:05:51 +0100
From: "Paal Wendelbo" <paaw at online.no>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion about decentalizedstove
efforts
Message-ID: <27C1B91365E945079F21D6383CF314E8 at PaalPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Michael
At Adjumani Refugee camp in North of Uganda in 1995 we used ? kg bundles of
straw, (hypereniarufa) into the TLUD-ND Peko Pe. The straw was cleaned from
thin leaves, cut with machete in right length and bundled with sisal-rope.
The rope was removed while the bundle was put into the stove to obtain air
for clean combustion.
The especial with straw used that way was, it did not collapse when flame
ended, and you had the high temperature from the glowing just underneath of
the pot almost the same time as the flame was burning. I just wonder will
that be the same with pellets from straw?
Regards Paal W
From: Michael Mahowald
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2014 3:18 AM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion about decentalizedstove
efforts
Hi Dean
I have used many TLUD stoves and fed large groups many times with them. I
also have built many ovens that use the same heat after stove top cooking.
The stoves all work great. The problem getting people to use them is keeping
enough dry wood available.
We have not tested vetiver grass pellets yet. But we have tested switch
grass which worked better and hotter than woodpellets. All pellets
consistently burn better than different size and types of wood much less
biomass as stoves are tuned for each.
If you expect the world will switch to TLUD stoves by twisting grass by
hand, these stoves will never takeover charcoal.
When we make pellets using grass pellets for syngas it will be cheaper than
diesel fuel and it can take over charcoal for preferred fuel.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 15, 2014, at 11:21 AM, "Dean Still" <deankstill at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Michael,
Perhaps experimenters could try other methods than making pellets? A very
light fuel like grass can end up costing a lot to make into pellets. How
about twisting the grasses into rope? Then cut into small sections?
All Best,
Dean
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Michael Mahowald <memahowald at hotmail.com>
wrote:
Trees are important but fuel for stoves should be from Grass! I have
worked in Haiti for 15 years and the erosion is so bad in some areas that
reforestation projects fail because they cannot keep them watered enough in
the dry seasons. The only way to bring back the soil and hold moisture is
planting vetiver grass.
Grass energy precisely grass pellets are what is needed for tlud stoves
please look at my website
to understand what I am talking about. We want to work with all Tlud
stoves but the real problem is the fuel!
http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/
Our solution fixes many problems as you will see.
Michael E. Mahowald
President
Haiti Reconstruction International
952-220-6814
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 11:39:36 +0300
From: cookswelljikos at gmail.com
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS Discussion about decentalized stove
efforts
Dear Ronal -
Thank you very much for your kind words.
I am very concerned about the woodfuel supply chain, after all, if I
make improved efficient stoves that make its easier and cheaper for people
to burn tree's with, it is a wise investment for me to do all I can to help
my customers grow more trees.
I hope we can encourage more players in the cookstove industry to join
us in advocating, promoting and being involved in sustainable woodfuel
focused forestry projects.
We actually had made a few prototypes of char producing and char using
stoves a few years ago but discontinued due to low market demand.
Teddy
Cookswell Jikos
www.cookswell.co.ke
www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
Mobile: +254 700 380 0 09
Mobile: +254 700 905 913
P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Ronal W. Larson
<rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:
Teddy et al:
I have just visited your web site and was very impressed. You
obviously have a big concern about charcoal being produced badly - so thank
for that. I like your comments on where/how to manufacture stoves.
You also look like a great company to manufacture char-making
stoves. Is that possibly on the horizon for cookswelljikos?
Ron
On Jan 11, 2014, at 11:47 AM, Cookswell Jikos
<cookswelljikos at gmail.com&g t; wrote:
Dear Richard, Salaams,
I did meet Charles briefly once, but that was many years ago - I do
try to stay in touch as much as my work schedule allows with as many other
stovies in Kenya as I can but we are all a busy lot and dont get to see each
other enough.
In regards to your email above, I have found that at the end of the
day, whether or not the the stove was made in either of the manufacturing
systems discussed, it remains one of the last things on a long list of
reasons why my customers part with their hard earned money to buy a
Cookswell stove.
Cheers,
Teddy
Cookswell Jikos
www.cookswell.co.ke
www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
Mobile: +254 700 380 009
Mobile: +254 700 905 913
P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Richard Stanley
<rstanley at legacyfound.org> wrote:
Habari gani, Teddy,
Did you ever hear of Charles Onyando over in Kangemi? He passed
away a few years ago but was very active with stoves himself and he worked
with your father for a while in testing and design.
Richard Stanley
www.legacyfound.org
Indani ya nchi ya US, kwa sasa
On Jan 11, 2014, at 4:27 AM, Cookswell Jikos wrote:
Dear All,
This is a very interesting discussion that I have been happily
following during my travels this last week. I find that di scussions like
these help to define the complexities of the biomass cookstove sector. I
often wonder what other non-electric domestic cooking appliances attract
such passionate players and great thinkers in their respective product
lines.
I personally have been lucky enough to have been somewhat involved
in both ends of this question of centralized and decentralized manufacture
of cookstoves - my late dad, Dr. Max Kinyanjui, would tell me of how once he
almost quite the KCJ (Kenya Ceramic Jiko) project when centralized
production was initially suggested, and thankfully he did not. Today I am
currently looking into designing flat pack systems for KCJ's and other
associated sheet metal cut outs ( charcoal making drum kilns, charcoal
baking ovens etc.) that can be locally assembled by networks of existing
manufactures; this is mainly to reduce raw material transport and waste
issues, increase standardization levels, increase customer/stove maker
interactions and to reduce end user costs.
I feel that one major design achievement to enhance stove
dissemination (but is perhaps a bit bad business) is to create something
that is so useful and easy to use, understand and make money off of, to huge
range of potential customers that replication, sometimes for the better,
many times for the worse, snowballs the technology into the kitchens of the
ones needing it most.
To the Cookswell/Kinyanjui family, seeing our inventions and
designs being copied and sold in many countries by many levels of
manufacturers is one of the most satisfactory feelings of being good stove
makers. We also very much hope that more people will also begin to take the
time to appreciate the value of conducting a holistic manufacturing process
that gives due consideration to the life cycle analysis of the product(s) in
question.
And as we continue exploring not only the stove, but the entire
''seed-to-ash'' cycle of household biomass energy, I would just like to send
a vote of thanks to all those who actively contribute and manage this list
serve, it is very good stove reading.
Happy new years and all the best to all,
Teddy Kinyanjui
Sustainability Director
Cookswell Jikos
www.cookswell.co.ke
www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
Mobile: +254 700 380 009
Mobile: +254 700 905 913
P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Ranyee Chiang
<rchiang at cleancookstoves.org> wrote:
Interesting topics for further discussion at ETHOS. A good way
to frame this discussion may be to think about ways that the different types
of efforts can be integrated together, or how they can learn from each
other. Certainly from the Global Alliance's point of view, both types of
efforts are important and require different types of tailored support. It
would be useful to hear some discussion about the specifics of the tailored
support that is needed in each case. And overall, I think that a discussion
focused &quo t;and" not "versus" would be quite interesting.
Cheers,
Ranyee
________________________________________
From: ethos-bounces at vrac.iastate.edu
<ethos-bounces at vrac.iastate.edu> on behalf of Paul Anderson
<psanders at ilstu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 3:33 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; ETHOS - Listserve
Subject: Re: [Ethos] [Stoves] ETHOS Discussion about
decentalized stove efforts
Ben,
Please provide more info about that suggestion/recommendation.
When was
it, and to whom? Any viable contacts that could be reached for
further
clarification?
In general, the decentralized elements are not "organized" and
have far
fewer funds. Much of it is lobbying and money to get decisions
that
favor those who can lobby and have the money already. Because
that is
not likely to change, what strategies are possible for
decentralized
efforts even in relatively small geographic areas?
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 12/31/2013 8:51 PM, Ben Blevins wrote:
> Deloitte contractors suggested decentralized for various
reasons, there consulting was rejected because the finding did not reinforce
the message of mass production and distribution by development industry
players.
>
> B
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Paul Anderson
<psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Dear Paal, and all,
>>
>> As much as I can agree with Paal's statements, but I think
the cards are stacked against the success of decentralized efforts.
>>
>> The issue that Paal raises about the need to have
decentralized production of stoves (and fuels) is a touchy topic because the
"model" of the affluent world is for centralized industrial production.
That centralized model is certainly a cornerstone of the GACC and WB and
many who feel that the model of the affluent world will work to resolve
major issues in the developing world. And they control access to most of the
funding. And they present very convincing arguments. (If they could not,
they would not be in control of the situation.)
>>
>> It would be good to have some examples of decentralized
efforts having major impacts. Maybe the spread of the Kenyan ceramic jiko
(KCJ) is one example.
>>
>> I will be at ETHOS and willing for such discussions if others
step forward wanting to discuss this informally as an ad hoc sub-group.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>
>> On 12/31/2013 10:15 AM, paaw at online.no wrote:
>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:12:54 -0700,
>>> stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> Due to health and age it will not be possible for me to
participate, but after 30 years working with task and followed the
discussion at Stove list I have come to this conclusion.
>>>>
>>>> There has to be a discussion at ETHOS about centralized or
decentralized activities regarding fuel an d stove production with a view on
the enormous unemployment in developing countries. Taken into consideration
the high demands of clean combustion, pellets will be the future biomass
fuel for simple clean burning such as TLUD ND and FD. Energy forestry and
agriculture energy production together collection of waste biomass of
different types will give a lot of new needed jobs.
>>>>
>>>> ? Registration of local waste combustible biomass.
>>>>
>>>> ? Use of local resources
>>>>
>>>> ? Biochar production by cooking.
>>>>
>>>> That will be the best way for GACC Stove program to support
the low income groups all around the worl
>>>>
>>>> Best regards Paal Wendelbo paaw at online.no
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Stoves mailing list
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End of Stoves Digest, Vol 41, Issue 24
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