[Stoves] World Population and Daily Income: Gumballs versus real food for thought ?

[Richard Stanley]

Kevin, 

I heartily agree with Ron re, Beck and Tanton et al. Ron's counterpoint reference is well taken;  

In looking over your reference to Beck's speech, it's painfully obvious (even without gumballs) that no one is going to solve the worlds problems by flooding one nation with another's poor but it is also true that the solution is not to remain isolated. But the issue is  deeper still: While Beck and co. suggest  that the solutions need to be delivered to the nations themselves, what he does not mention is that one must  be prepared to change one's own orientation as a result--whether or not the solutions are "delivered" or resolved in the nation receiving the immigrants.  

You mentioned the issue of how to deal with "these people" in your own recent  post and in that statement,  you reflect wittingly or unwittingly, much of our own US  part of the American continent's naivete'. Whether or not you intend it, this kind of thinking can easily fall prey to the presumption of many that  we are somehow unique and bestowed with the right and obligation to  manage and mold others to our  own mores and cultural behaviors as integral to our beneficence. 

It  may be entirely out of order and naive on my own part to suggest this to you but if you haven't travelled and worked in the third world, I would implore you and anyone else from our northern part of the Americas and the West in general, to go out and get real taste for "these people" whom you refer to. Volunteer and work in the developing nations -- but not just as observer/tourist; Get into the daily life and try to see and feel just a bit of the way of life, the reasoned morality and compassion towards family and community -- get a feel for the basis of doing what they do---  under living conditions  and on the calorific intake they enjoy daily. It is all about  learning to see their reality as they see it and to then only try to resolve solution's from within---not just for. It's a huge eye opener and one very unforgettable experience. 

From a less compassionate perspective, to the extent that we of the US part of the Americas --and you equally as the Canadian part of the Americas, can adapt to the global realities, that we are both enriched.  Put in terms that Beck and co.  would understand, We will both have to change eventually anyway, so why not integrate and blend now rather than  attempting to draw lines in the sand ? 

En resumen, Beck's facts  are two dimensional at best; They are about as informative and enriching as his gumballs frankly. We do not need more sugar in our lives We need thoughtful and seasoned food for thought.

To the extent that our stove biomass biochar work can integrate and be adapted, enriched  and diffused from within-and by-the worlds poor, and to the extent that we are willing and able to grasp the significance of a global adapted solutions as the ultimate dynamic and self sustained solution, this otherwise political discussion may have strong relevance to this discussion group. 

Like it or not, this issue unfortunately underlies the success of much of our individual and collective effort.

We are returning to Nicaragua to pick up where we left off developing locally grown solutions for a solid fuel demand with several local communities from all over the nation. 
Sounds great eh?  Frankly we will fail 40% of the time to teach anything of lasting import but we will also likely find the fuel making technique  adapted altered and integrated  60% of the time. We bring to this effort  the richness of experience in threshing, chopping, mashing residues --for briquetting--from rural communities of producer and trainers in Guatemala, Uganda and Tanzania. We will be encouraging the use of a Ratchet press already made in Nicaragua and one which has  evolved through local adaptations in Tanzania, Kenya, Guatemala and more recently South Africa. We will be proposing an already locally made version of Engineers without Borders  micro press,  out  of Ohio US, and well tested in about ten developing nations. We'll be working with stovers from this list and others yet to join, to integrate the fuel where is logical demand for it as a simple wood and charcoal substitute and or for char production---as an economically and environmentally sound alternative as determined by local entrepreneurs and consumers. And we'll be online daily and in contact with you all to share what we learn and learn what you share back.   The Nicas are really great folks who have had to adapt technologies for a long time in their recent history, the level of ingenuity and skill is something we are learning about daily.   But more than that, your "these people" are acting as trainers  and  equal contributors  to the growing network.   I wish we had more of them in the US part of the Americas –and in as much as you project our issues with our own borders–, may I suggest that you too could benefit from them  in Canada as well . 

Richard Stanley
www.legacyfound.org



On Jul 11, 2014, at 7:27 AM, Ronal W. Larson wrote:

Kevin  cc List

	I am not going to respond.  There is close to zero connection between US immigration policy and your questions.  I take your questions to be an excuse to bring in a non-germane video by a master propaganda artist.

	I googled for Roy Beck and didn’t like what I saw.  Others should look at what is said by an organization I admire (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/spring/lie-down-with-dogs)   

Beck is listed as a mentor for my former Congressman,  Tom Tancredo - who is as racist as they come (just came in second in the Colorado Republican Gubernatorial race).  I can’t believe that Beck has any interest in increasing US Foreign Aid for topics like biochar and char-making stoves.   The American people (even R’s) are overwhelmingly for the immigration reform bill already passed by the US Senate.  It is held up by the Teaparty R’s - for what seems to me to be rcist reasons.  Why US immigration policy is important to you, a Canadian, is unclear.  I am not for increasing immigration;  I am for passing this reform legislation - opposed by Tancredo, the Tea Party and Beck

	 In any case, this list broke off from the stoves list - which is where your second question belongs, as I’m sure you know.

	There is plenty on this list archives to answer your first question.  You have continually knocked everything possible about biochar - and this seems in the same vein, although veiled.

Ron


On Jul 11, 2014, at 12:38 AM, 'Kevin' kchisholm at ca.inter.net [biochar-policy] <biochar-policy at yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> This video Clip
> http://www.youtube.com/embed/LPjzfGChGlE
> is about US Immigration Policy.
>  
> World population is about 7.2 billion people ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population )
>  
> The Video Clip states that about 3 billion people earn an average of LESS than $2 per day. Expressed in different terms, 41.6% of the World Population earns less than $2 per day.
>  
> This brings up 2 interesting questions:
>  
> 1: ===> What can biochar do for these people, and what would it have to cost, to be affordable to them?
> 2: ===> What kind of stoves do these people really need, and how much must they be delivered for, in order for them to be a sensible investment?
>  
> Kevin
>  
>  
> 
> __._,_.___
> Posted by: "Kevin" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
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