[Stoves] planting trees ( the way I'd do it 1, 000, 000, 000 years from now)

[Jeff Holiman]

Hello All,
Spent (used wheat and barley) brewer's grain where most starches are
converted to fermentable  sugars, is plentiful and usually given away
freely to local farmers as somewhat sticky animal feed in the Pacific NW.
Does anyone have any experience utilizing spent grain as a binder for
biochar pellets?
Kind regards,
Jeff
On Jun 20, 2014 6:01 PM, "Anand Karve" <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Rolf,
> a binder has to be mixed with the char powder. We buy floor sweepings
> from a flour mill. This material consists mainly of spilt flour. When
> boiled in water, it yields a sticky mass called starch paste, which is
> mixed with the char before extruding it. We use about 100 g flour to a
> kg of char. The briquettes are dried for about 4 days under bright
> sunlight. Some people use cattle dung as binder.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Energies Naturals C.B.
> <energiesnaturals at gmx.de> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Anand and all,
> >
> > last week we tried to pelletize powdery biochar from a fluidized bed
> gasifyer on a european flat die pellet press.
> >
> > It was a messy disaster ! No pellets unless we mixed it with 75%+
> sawdust.
> >
> > There must be a secret to pelletizing or briquetting the char.
> >
> > Can you give me a hint, Anand ?
> >
> > Thanks a lot
> >
> > Rolf Uhle
> >
> > Energies Naturals C.B.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:01:39 +0530
> > Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Stovers,
> >>  We convert agricultural waste into charcoal by using a TLUD type of
> kiln
> >> and briquette the powdery char. In India, we produce annually about 800
> >> million tons of agricultural waste, which can theoretically yield about
> 166
> >> million tons of charcoal. There is no need to cut any trees for
> charcoal.
> >> Yours
> >> A.D.Karve
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Cookswell Jikos
> >> <cookswelljikos at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>
> >> > OK.... as discouraging as the facts may be, the facts are reality, and
> >> > they must be dealt with to avoid future problems.
> >> > 1: Can different species be grown, that have higher Mean Annual
> Increments
> >> > of growth?
> >> > Yes - at least in East African drylands - the traditional colonial
> methods
> >> > of silviculture were focused on high land pine and cypress plantations
> >> > not indigenous dry land adapted trees. (which now provides the
> feedstock
> >> > for more of Kenyas charcoal) Since 1994 we have been experimenting
> with
> >> > different dryland planting and agronomic techniques (please see
> >> >
> http://www.acts.or.ke/dmdocuments/PROJECT_REPORTS/PISCES_Sustainable_Charcoal.pdf
>  pg.
> >> > 7) and most of our findings so far have led us to belive that endimic
> tree
> >> > species managed in a holistic and permacutrual manner produce coppiced
> >> > 'branch' charcoal with an excellent life cycle analysis profile.
> >> >
> >> > 2: Can the woodlots be managed better?
> >> > I think there is always room for improvement in many fields, but I
> >> > have definitely noticed more small and large farms in Kenya appling
> more of
> >> > a conservation agriculture approach to land use planning.
> >> >
> >> > 3: Can cooking practises be changed?
> >> > Yes - but with great difficulty. Imagine me coming from Kenya to tell
> your
> >> > grandma that she's all wrong and vice versa...
> >> >
> >> > What I have found though is that as people achieve higher incomes (and
> >> > watch more TV) in East Africa cooking energy sources becomes more
> mixed and
> >> > more specialized depending on the dish being cooked.
> >> >
> >> > 4: Would more efficient stoves help significantly?
> >> > The Kenya Ceramic Jiko has been one of the most widely disseminated
> >> > cookstoves in East Africa, on one hand, it saves users up to 50% on
> their
> >> > charcoal bills compared to all metal non-insulated stoves. On the
> other
> >> > hand, me and my father always wondered that if by making popularly
> stove
> >> > that made it cheaper and easier to use charcoal coupled
> >> > with population growth, did we not create more of a fuel dependency?
> This
> >> > is why since the 1990's we have been advocating as much as possible to
> >> > encourage all other stove makers to also think about provisions for
> >> > reafforestation efforts.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 5: Can other forms of fuel, or other sources of energy, be used to
> take
> >> > some of the pressure off the woodlots?
> >> > Please see this recently released quite amazing document from ICRAF
> >> >
> http://www.slideshare.net/agroforestry/miyuki-iiyamaicrafcharcoal-review2013
> ''What
> >> > happend to the charcoal crisis?''
> >> >
> >> > Yes, but if as WWF has seen in Virunga, if people switch to fossil
> fuels,
> >> > what happens when they are found under forests? And even solar
> cookers and
> >> > microwaves may not help as much as if one takes into account the Life
> Cycle
> >> > Analysis of the transport, computing power to design one etc... a 3
> stone
> >> > fire and growing your own trees start looking more attractive.
> >> >
> >> > I am a great proponent of tree based biomass energy for at least
> people's
> >> > sunday BBQ's ( which is a huge cause of charcoal us in Kenya!) due to
> the
> >> > fact of all the other ecological trickledown effects.
> >> >
> >> > 6: Would some form of "Agroforestry" be possible, to put the land to a
> >> > higher use, with multi-cropping?
> >> > ...etc...
> >> >
> >> > yes we have tried food, fuel and fodder combinations to good effect in
> >> > Kajiado - linear non-woodlot forestry is beginning to create more of
> >> > an appearance in this area as land becomes adjudicated and title deeds
> >> > issued. Land tenure is a huge obstacle to forestry in Kenya, this is
> why
> >> > I personally am in favour of things like aerial seeding programs - if
> we
> >> > some how grow too many trees, we will always be able to cut them down
> to
> >> > cook with!
> >> >
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.622109591163773.1073741929.199734683401268&type=1&l=0b605799ef
> >> >
> >> > Many thanks for your response.
> >> >
> >> > Teddy
> >> >
> >> > *Cookswell Jikos*
> >> > www.cookswell.co.ke
> >> > www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
> >> > www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
> >> > Mobile: +254 700 380 009
> >> > Mobile: +254 700 905 913
> >> > P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:15 AM, <Carefreeland at aol.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>   Kevin and Stovers,
> >> >>     I am desperately wanting to farther study points 1,2,5 and 6.
> You got
> >> >> my attention buddy. Sorry, I don't have a 100 year old experiment to
> show
> >> >> you the results of my work. I do not do research papers because I'm
> an
> >> >> illiterate idiot. Many of you who have been on this list a while may
> >> >> remember- this letter will be a small record of the state of a
> sample of my
> >> >> research. Nobody has me asked this lately but you, Kevin. I'll
> probably die
> >> >> knowing and wanting to know way more than I can ever tell, if I
> talked the
> >> >> rest of my life. It just seems to bore everybody but some Biomass
> people. I
> >> >> miss you all out here alone trapped in the future.
> >> >>     My extensive experience with landscaping and gardening suggests
> we
> >> >> have only begun to barely scratch the surface of multicropping
> research.
> >> >> Mother Nature has done an amazing job of this, but we are not after
> the
> >> >> same goals as her. Typical natural forestry suggests that a 3 layer
> canopy
> >> >> is most efficent in biomass productive environments. As we push into
> less
> >> >> productive land, that will be different in both directions. . What
> each
> >> >> layer consists of for any given set of environmental conditions is
> has wide
> >> >> increasingly complex variables. Someday 100 years from now, a
> computer
> >> >> program will be crunching in whatever is the Cray Super Computer of
> that
> >> >> age. It will tell the then modern forester what works best- maybe.
> Then,
> >> >> only experiments to compare the real time data to to the computer
> model
> >> >> will fine tune the long term plan.
> >> >>     Modern complex forestry computer programs mostly focus on select
> >> >> harvest models. Computer planting programs just use current harvest
> data to
> >> >> optimise plantation - type management.  How do you get data on trees
> that
> >> >> take 300 years or more to be fully mature?  Recent studies suggest
> that
> >> >> 1000 year old Redwoods are still increasing in biomass production
> over
> >> >> younger trees. Got 1000 years to collect data?? Maybe we should be
> breeding
> >> >> many trees to grow 1000 years.
> >> >>     If we make half the progress growing trees that we have made in a
> >> >> typical productive vegetable garden in 4000 or more years, you can
> throw
> >> >> out the predictions for production numbers. New numbers may be
> easily a
> >> >> power of ten more productive. Just look what small changes have
> brought us.
> >> >> When you consider the efficiency of photosynthisis to convert
> sunlight into
> >> >> chemical energy, that number theoreticlly can go two powers of ten
> or more.
> >> >> Not only do we need to first optimise growing technique, but then
> optimise
> >> >> breeding, and back to growing technique and so fourth.
> >> >>     I don't even want to consider pandoras box of geneticly modified
> >> >> plants. I think outer space is the best place to release them so
> they don't
> >> >> contaminate our biosphere like GM corn has. I considered that
> thought over
> >> >> 20 years ago and it merged with my childhood idea of growing trees
> on the
> >> >> moon and on orbit.  That is why I've wanted to merge a greenhouse
> with a
> >> >> blacksmith shop. It's how space homesteads will do it. I discussed
> this
> >> >> issue at a hydroponics conference in the early 1990's and everybodys
> eyes
> >> >> rolled, so I just went out and worked on it with what I had. Nobody
> came to
> >> >> collect the amazing data I saw everyday for twenty years. A few
> years ago,
> >> >> my greenhouse was forced to close and my finacial situation has
> nearly
> >> >> halted all my research. I hope to slowly get back in the game if I
> don't
> >> >> loose my new 5 acre farm. It is Gods gift to me for my study. Most
> of the
> >> >> assets of this land are hidden and only of use to me.
> >> >>     Most of the forests today are being primarlily managed for
> lumber of
> >> >> some type. Hunting wildlife is about the only large second crop.
> Small
> >> >> private lands and prototype corporate plantations are where the
> experiments
> >> >> are being done. When we start to combine orchard and vegetable
> production
> >> >> with forestry, the sky is the limit. I take that back, how far has
> the Big
> >> >> Bang blown things open today? That is the limit. And this is how we
> will
> >> >> get out there if we do, over a billion years of future evolution and
> space
> >> >> travel. Call me crazy, but I saw a powerful vision as a child that
> told me
> >> >> this. You just keep moving the decimal point on the equation. Carl
> Sagan
> >> >> must have seen a vision like mine, and so I supported his work long
> ago.
> >> >> Most thought he was craazy too. Thanks Carl.
> >> >>     I have been blessed to spend a little time with one of the
> greatest
> >> >> foresters of our generation. John Guthrie of Wiggins Mississippi
> fame. My
> >> >> crash course in Southern USA forestry, shortly after Hurricane
> Katrina,
> >> >> taught me the following: The closer we get to understanding the
> original
> >> >> native environment, the better we can merge our needs to the use of
> the
> >> >> land given to us.
> >> >>     John would be first to tell you that if only a higher power can
> make
> >> >> a tree, who are we to decide how and where to grow it? That has led
> him to
> >> >> push the reintroduction of missing native tree species which have
> been
> >> >> eliminated one at a time. Grown in plantations to examine and focuse
> on
> >> >> each, longleaf pine is a good example. It was like the White Oak
> tree, the
> >> >> king of the forest, until it was logged nearly to extinction.
> Currently,
> >> >> burning of undergrowth is done like the Natives did for management
> in early
> >> >> stage plantations. Timing is everything. We had lively conversation
> about
> >> >> grazing and/ or underplanting of numerous shrub species to reduce
> this
> >> >> practice. I think I opened up his mind by the smile on his face. Some
> >> >> private plantations were doing this on a very basic experimental
> level in
> >> >> 2006.
> >> >>     The forest plot I was camped in, had longleaf pine being
> interplanted
> >> >> where select thining was being done to young Southern Yellow Pine,
> It was
> >> >> John"s land right behind the International Paper plant, so I think
> it was a
> >> >> prototype. The thinnings were going mostly to chip and saw for OSB
> and
> >> >> other products. The small thinings were hauled at harvest cost for
> pulp.
> >> >> Katrina opened it up more - as if God were saying to John " you got
> the
> >> >> idea boy, now go with it and I'll help yu".
> >> >>     Dr. Michler I belive is his name, discussed his work at Purdue U.
> >> >> with me about 10 years ago. At the time he was pioneering in the
> selecting
> >> >> of 3 hardwood species: Red  Oak, Black Cherry, and Walnut. An Indiana
> >> >> nursery was selling the products of tissue culture of the best
> selected
> >> >> species. Breeding of hardwoods was still in it's infancy. The new
> science
> >> >> then was using gene mapping to select known genes to assist breeding
> of
> >> >> trees which were only starting to bear fruit. That is very exciting
> -more
> >> >> productive and safe than GM plants. I called because I wanted to
> know if
> >> >> anybody had studied growing trees to make charcoal fuel and he
> wondered
> >> >> what for.....
> >> >>     Kevin, I would like to add to your bucket list a huge compounding
> >> >> factor number 7.  What happens when we do all of the above, yet look
> at
> >> >> secondary and multiple layers of recycling of plants. For a great
> example
> >> >> you and I may have discussed the fact that Charcoal production for an
> >> >> industrial fuel may be the best utimate landfill killer. Demolition
> waste
> >> >> must be the largest growing filler of landfills. I have done limited
> >> >> research into which trees produce the best metallurgical charcoal.
> What
> >> >> happens when we breed trees for example, to both build houses, then
> reuse
> >> >> the wood to fuel a blast furnace to make the finest iron ever made?.
> The
> >> >> two uses are very compatible. Just so happens that some of the
> strongest
> >> >> hardwoods as well as pine species make real clean charcoal. The
> hardwoods
> >> >> make the most dense charcoal by nature. We can also infuse charcoal
> with
> >> >> additional hydrocarbons in the conversion process, with net energy
> >> >> production. If we grow walnut trees for example, we can produce food
> and
> >> >> many chemicals too at no additional cost.
> >> >>     Nearly every organic chemical can be coaxed from living material.
> >> >> Don't even get me started on the chemical refinery/production
> avenue. I've
> >> >> said enough. I cannot do much more or take time to record what I've
> found
> >> >>  out or can find out without a break in life somewhere. That is why
> I don't
> >> >> contribute much anymore to these lists. It gets me all excited, and
> then
> >> >> frustration sets in. I have 3 kids to raise and cannot waste my time
> >> >> playing with the future of mankind when I need food stamps.
> >> >>     Enough said.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>     Ok , do I have anybodies attention now???
> >> >>     I have to get off the computer so my Son can do his homework,
>  Sorry,
> >> >> no time for editing or additional info tonight.
> >> >>
> >> >>     Dan Dimiduk
> >> >>     Shangri- La Research.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> In a message dated 11/13/2013 7:41:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> >> >> kchisholm at ca.inter.net writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> Dear RB
> >> >>
> >> >> OK.... as discouraging as the facts may be, the facts are reality,
> and
> >> >> they must be dealt with to avoid future problems.
> >> >> 1: Can different species be grown, that have higher Mean Annual
> >> >> Increments of growth?
> >> >> 2: Can the woodlots be managed better?
> >> >> 3: Can cooking practises be changed?
> >> >> 4: Would more efficient stoves help significantly?
> >> >> 5: Can other forms of fuel, or other sources of energy, be used to
> take
> >> >> some of the pressure off the woodlots?
> >> >> 6: Would some form of "Agroforestry" be possible, to put the land to
> a
> >> >> higher use, with multi-cropping?
> >> >> ...etc...
> >> >>
> >> >> Most people like to do things the way they have always been done.
> They
> >> >> can't expect different results if they do things the same way they
> have
> >> >> always done things in the past. The cruel facts are that if they want
> >> >> different results, then they will have to find changes that are
> acceptable
> >> >> to them, OR choose to live with the consequences of their present
> >> >> practises. Those seem to be the cruel realities.
> >> >>
> >> >> Best wishes,
> >> >>
> >> >> Kevin
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> ***
> >> Dr. A.D. Karve
> >> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
> (ARTI)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Energies Naturals C.B. <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
> >
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>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
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