[Stoves] planting trees ( the way I'd do it 1, 000, 000, 000 years from now)

Energies Naturals C.B. energiesnaturals at gmx.de
Sat Jun 21 18:07:49 CDT 2014 

Thank you Musungu,

this sounds the most feasable to me.

Starch is expensive and  cassava meal , which is also starch, not available in Europe.

Have you ever tried clay yourself? Which percentage? And than pelletize or just put through an extruder and dry ?

Perhaps we can use some waste heat from the reactor for drying.

I'll let you know!

Thanks again

Rolf






On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 17:32:32 +0300
"Musungu Wycliffe Nabutola" <reecon at mitsuminet.com> wrote:

> You can also use clay
> 
> Rgd,
> 
> Musungu
> 
>  
> 
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> Sent: 20 June 2014 16:55
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] planting trees ( the way I'd do it 1, 000, 000, 000 years from now)
> 
>  
> 
> You need a starchy binder made from waste-something. 
> 
>  
> 
> Regards 
> 
> Crispin 
> 
> 
> From: Energies Naturals C.B.
> 
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 19:48
> 
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> 
> Reply To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> 
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] planting trees ( the way I'd do it 1, 000, 000, 000 years from now)
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Dear Anand and all,
> 
> last week we tried to pelletize powdery biochar from a fluidized bed gasifyer on a european flat die pellet press.
> 
> It was a messy disaster ! No pellets unless we mixed it with 75%+ sawdust.
> 
> There must be a secret to pelletizing or briquetting the char. 
> 
> Can you give me a hint, Anand ?
> 
> Thanks a lot 
> 
> Rolf Uhle
> 
> Energies Naturals C.B.
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:01:39 +0530
> Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Dear Stovers,
> >  We convert agricultural waste into charcoal by using a TLUD type of kiln
> > and briquette the powdery char. In India, we produce annually about 800
> > million tons of agricultural waste, which can theoretically yield about 166
> > million tons of charcoal. There is no need to cut any trees for charcoal.
> > Yours
> > A.D.Karve
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Cookswell Jikos
> > <cookswelljikos at gmail.com>wrote:
> > 
> > > OK.... as discouraging as the facts may be, the facts are reality, and
> > > they must be dealt with to avoid future problems.
> > > 1: Can different species be grown, that have higher Mean Annual Increments
> > > of growth?
> > > Yes - at least in East African drylands - the traditional colonial methods
> > > of silviculture were focused on high land pine and cypress plantations
> > > not indigenous dry land adapted trees. (which now provides the feedstock
> > > for more of Kenyas charcoal) Since 1994 we have been experimenting with
> > > different dryland planting and agronomic techniques (please see
> > > http://www.acts.or.ke/dmdocuments/PROJECT_REPORTS/PISCES_Sustainable_Charcoal.pdf  pg.
> > > 7) and most of our findings so far have led us to belive that endimic tree
> > > species managed in a holistic and permacutrual manner produce coppiced
> > > 'branch' charcoal with an excellent life cycle analysis profile.
> > >
> > > 2: Can the woodlots be managed better?
> > > I think there is always room for improvement in many fields, but I
> > > have definitely noticed more small and large farms in Kenya appling more of
> > > a conservation agriculture approach to land use planning.
> > >
> > > 3: Can cooking practises be changed?
> > > Yes - but with great difficulty. Imagine me coming from Kenya to tell your
> > > grandma that she's all wrong and vice versa...
> > >
> > > What I have found though is that as people achieve higher incomes (and
> > > watch more TV) in East Africa cooking energy sources becomes more mixed and
> > > more specialized depending on the dish being cooked.
> > >
> > > 4: Would more efficient stoves help significantly?
> > > The Kenya Ceramic Jiko has been one of the most widely disseminated
> > > cookstoves in East Africa, on one hand, it saves users up to 50% on their
> > > charcoal bills compared to all metal non-insulated stoves. On the other
> > > hand, me and my father always wondered that if by making popularly stove
> > > that made it cheaper and easier to use charcoal coupled
> > > with population growth, did we not create more of a fuel dependency? This
> > > is why since the 1990's we have been advocating as much as possible to
> > > encourage all other stove makers to also think about provisions for
> > > reafforestation efforts.
> > >
> > >
> > > 5: Can other forms of fuel, or other sources of energy, be used to take
> > > some of the pressure off the woodlots?
> > > Please see this recently released quite amazing document from ICRAF
> > > http://www.slideshare.net/agroforestry/miyuki-iiyamaicrafcharcoal-review2013 ''What
> > > happend to the charcoal crisis?''
> > >
> > > Yes, but if as WWF has seen in Virunga, if people switch to fossil fuels,
> > > what happens when they are found under forests? And even solar cookers and
> > > microwaves may not help as much as if one takes into account the Life Cycle
> > > Analysis of the transport, computing power to design one etc... a 3 stone
> > > fire and growing your own trees start looking more attractive.
> > >
> > > I am a great proponent of tree based biomass energy for at least people's
> > > sunday BBQ's ( which is a huge cause of charcoal us in Kenya!) due to the
> > > fact of all the other ecological trickledown effects.
> > >
> > > 6: Would some form of "Agroforestry" be possible, to put the land to a
> > > higher use, with multi-cropping?
> > > ...etc...
> > >
> > > yes we have tried food, fuel and fodder combinations to good effect in
> > > Kajiado - linear non-woodlot forestry is beginning to create more of
> > > an appearance in this area as land becomes adjudicated and title deeds
> > > issued. Land tenure is a huge obstacle to forestry in Kenya, this is why
> > > I personally am in favour of things like aerial seeding programs - if we
> > > some how grow too many trees, we will always be able to cut them down to
> > > cook with!
> > > https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.622109591163773.1073741929.199734683401268 <https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.622109591163773.1073741929.199734683401268&type=1&l=0b605799ef> &type=1&l=0b605799ef
> > >
> > > Many thanks for your response.
> > >
> > > Teddy
> > >
> > > *Cookswell Jikos*
> > > www.cookswell.co.ke
> > > www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
> > > www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
> > > Mobile: +254 700 380 009
> > > Mobile: +254 700 905 913
> > > P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:15 AM, <Carefreeland at aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>   Kevin and Stovers,
> > >>     I am desperately wanting to farther study points 1,2,5 and 6. You got
> > >> my attention buddy. Sorry, I don't have a 100 year old experiment to show
> > >> you the results of my work. I do not do research papers because I'm an
> > >> illiterate idiot. Many of you who have been on this list a while may
> > >> remember- this letter will be a small record of the state of a sample of my
> > >> research. Nobody has me asked this lately but you, Kevin. I'll probably die
> > >> knowing and wanting to know way more than I can ever tell, if I talked the
> > >> rest of my life. It just seems to bore everybody but some Biomass people. I
> > >> miss you all out here alone trapped in the future.
> > >>     My extensive experience with landscaping and gardening suggests we
> > >> have only begun to barely scratch the surface of multicropping research.
> > >> Mother Nature has done an amazing job of this, but we are not after the
> > >> same goals as her. Typical natural forestry suggests that a 3 layer canopy
> > >> is most efficent in biomass productive environments. As we push into less
> > >> productive land, that will be different in both directions. . What each
> > >> layer consists of for any given set of environmental conditions is has wide
> > >> increasingly complex variables. Someday 100 years from now, a computer
> > >> program will be crunching in whatever is the Cray Super Computer of that
> > >> age. It will tell the then modern forester what works best- maybe. Then,
> > >> only experiments to compare the real time data to to the computer model
> > >> will fine tune the long term plan.
> > >>     Modern complex forestry computer programs mostly focus on select
> > >> harvest models. Computer planting programs just use current harvest data to
> > >> optimise plantation - type management.  How do you get data on trees that
> > >> take 300 years or more to be fully mature?  Recent studies suggest that
> > >> 1000 year old Redwoods are still increasing in biomass production over
> > >> younger trees. Got 1000 years to collect data?? Maybe we should be breeding
> > >> many trees to grow 1000 years.
> > >>     If we make half the progress growing trees that we have made in a
> > >> typical productive vegetable garden in 4000 or more years, you can throw
> > >> out the predictions for production numbers. New numbers may be easily a
> > >> power of ten more productive. Just look what small changes have brought us.
> > >> When you consider the efficiency of photosynthisis to convert sunlight into
> > >> chemical energy, that number theoreticlly can go two powers of ten or more.
> > >> Not only do we need to first optimise growing technique, but then optimise
> > >> breeding, and back to growing technique and so fourth.
> > >>     I don't even want to consider pandoras box of geneticly modified
> > >> plants. I think outer space is the best place to release them so they don't
> > >> contaminate our biosphere like GM corn has. I considered that thought over
> > >> 20 years ago and it merged with my childhood idea of growing trees on the
> > >> moon and on orbit.  That is why I've wanted to merge a greenhouse with a
> > >> blacksmith shop. It's how space homesteads will do it. I discussed this
> > >> issue at a hydroponics conference in the early 1990's and everybodys eyes
> > >> rolled, so I just went out and worked on it with what I had. Nobody came to
> > >> collect the amazing data I saw everyday for twenty years. A few years ago,
> > >> my greenhouse was forced to close and my finacial situation has nearly
> > >> halted all my research. I hope to slowly get back in the game if I don't
> > >> loose my new 5 acre farm. It is Gods gift to me for my study. Most of the
> > >> assets of this land are hidden and only of use to me.
> > >>     Most of the forests today are being primarlily managed for lumber of
> > >> some type. Hunting wildlife is about the only large second crop. Small
> > >> private lands and prototype corporate plantations are where the experiments
> > >> are being done. When we start to combine orchard and vegetable production
> > >> with forestry, the sky is the limit. I take that back, how far has the Big
> > >> Bang blown things open today? That is the limit. And this is how we will
> > >> get out there if we do, over a billion years of future evolution and space
> > >> travel. Call me crazy, but I saw a powerful vision as a child that told me
> > >> this. You just keep moving the decimal point on the equation. Carl Sagan
> > >> must have seen a vision like mine, and so I supported his work long ago.
> > >> Most thought he was craazy too. Thanks Carl.
> > >>     I have been blessed to spend a little time with one of the greatest
> > >> foresters of our generation. John Guthrie of Wiggins Mississippi fame. My
> > >> crash course in Southern USA forestry, shortly after Hurricane Katrina,
> > >> taught me the following: The closer we get to understanding the original
> > >> native environment, the better we can merge our needs to the use of the
> > >> land given to us.
> > >>     John would be first to tell you that if only a higher power can make
> > >> a tree, who are we to decide how and where to grow it? That has led him to
> > >> push the reintroduction of missing native tree species which have been
> > >> eliminated one at a time. Grown in plantations to examine and focuse on
> > >> each, longleaf pine is a good example. It was like the White Oak tree, the
> > >> king of the forest, until it was logged nearly to extinction. Currently,
> > >> burning of undergrowth is done like the Natives did for management in early
> > >> stage plantations. Timing is everything. We had lively conversation about
> > >> grazing and/ or underplanting of numerous shrub species to reduce this
> > >> practice. I think I opened up his mind by the smile on his face. Some
> > >> private plantations were doing this on a very basic experimental level in
> > >> 2006.
> > >>     The forest plot I was camped in, had longleaf pine being interplanted
> > >> where select thining was being done to young Southern Yellow Pine, It was
> > >> John"s land right behind the International Paper plant, so I think it was a
> > >> prototype. The thinnings were going mostly to chip and saw for OSB and
> > >> other products. The small thinings were hauled at harvest cost for pulp.
> > >> Katrina opened it up more - as if God were saying to John " you got the
> > >> idea boy, now go with it and I'll help yu".
> > >>     Dr. Michler I belive is his name, discussed his work at Purdue U.
> > >> with me about 10 years ago. At the time he was pioneering in the selecting
> > >> of 3 hardwood species: Red  Oak, Black Cherry, and Walnut. An Indiana
> > >> nursery was selling the products of tissue culture of the best selected
> > >> species. Breeding of hardwoods was still in it's infancy. The new science
> > >> then was using gene mapping to select known genes to assist breeding of
> > >> trees which were only starting to bear fruit. That is very exciting -more
> > >> productive and safe than GM plants. I called because I wanted to know if
> > >> anybody had studied growing trees to make charcoal fuel and he wondered
> > >> what for.....
> > >>     Kevin, I would like to add to your bucket list a huge compounding
> > >> factor number 7.  What happens when we do all of the above, yet look at
> > >> secondary and multiple layers of recycling of plants. For a great example
> > >> you and I may have discussed the fact that Charcoal production for an
> > >> industrial fuel may be the best utimate landfill killer. Demolition waste
> > >> must be the largest growing filler of landfills. I have done limited
> > >> research into which trees produce the best metallurgical charcoal. What
> > >> happens when we breed trees for example, to both build houses, then reuse
> > >> the wood to fuel a blast furnace to make the finest iron ever made?. The
> > >> two uses are very compatible. Just so happens that some of the strongest
> > >> hardwoods as well as pine species make real clean charcoal. The hardwoods
> > >> make the most dense charcoal by nature. We can also infuse charcoal with
> > >> additional hydrocarbons in the conversion process, with net energy
> > >> production. If we grow walnut trees for example, we can produce food and
> > >> many chemicals too at no additional cost.
> > >>     Nearly every organic chemical can be coaxed from living material.
> > >> Don't even get me started on the chemical refinery/production avenue. I've
> > >> said enough. I cannot do much more or take time to record what I've found
> > >>  out or can find out without a break in life somewhere. That is why I don't
> > >> contribute much anymore to these lists. It gets me all excited, and then
> > >> frustration sets in. I have 3 kids to raise and cannot waste my time
> > >> playing with the future of mankind when I need food stamps.
> > >>     Enough said.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>     Ok , do I have anybodies attention now???
> > >>     I have to get off the computer so my Son can do his homework,  Sorry,
> > >> no time for editing or additional info tonight.
> > >>
> > >>     Dan Dimiduk
> > >>     Shangri- La Research.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> In a message dated 11/13/2013 7:41:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > >> kchisholm at ca.inter.net writes:
> > >>
> > >> Dear RB
> > >>
> > >> OK.... as discouraging as the facts may be, the facts are reality, and
> > >> they must be dealt with to avoid future problems.
> > >> 1: Can different species be grown, that have higher Mean Annual
> > >> Increments of growth?
> > >> 2: Can the woodlots be managed better?
> > >> 3: Can cooking practises be changed?
> > >> 4: Would more efficient stoves help significantly?
> > >> 5: Can other forms of fuel, or other sources of energy, be used to take
> > >> some of the pressure off the woodlots?
> > >> 6: Would some form of "Agroforestry" be possible, to put the land to a
> > >> higher use, with multi-cropping?
> > >> ...etc...
> > >>
> > >> Most people like to do things the way they have always been done. They
> > >> can't expect different results if they do things the same way they have
> > >> always done things in the past. The cruel facts are that if they want
> > >> different results, then they will have to find changes that are acceptable
> > >> to them, OR choose to live with the consequences of their present
> > >> practises. Those seem to be the cruel realities.
> > >>
> > >> Best wishes,
> > >>
> > >> Kevin
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
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> > >
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > ***
> > Dr. A.D. Karve
> > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Energies Naturals C.B. <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
> 
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