[Stoves] Cuber and size of densifying machines. (no longer Re: The wood and char and fuel "debate" )

[Energies Naturals C.B.]

The bulk density I have seen on several reports is about 400 kg/m³, not so bad.
The 150 hp could come from an old truck engine of ca. 300 hp rated down to use with generator gas.
This would overcome the need to be close to a medium tension transformer and the unit could be mobile!
Own consumption should be around 1 kg/ hph, right?

This is not such a bad relation.

Rolf



On Wed, 5 Mar 2014 12:03:14 -0800
"Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:

> Paul, Rolf,
> 
> If I understand the slide correctly there are 2 x 55 kW motors so the cuber has 110 kW (150 HP) connected. That should produce 1-2 tph of cubes at 10%-12% MC. The cubes look like standard size which is about 30 mm x 30 mm x 30-50 mm long. Bulk density is probably about 250 kg/m3 (16 lb/ft3) with ag residues, higher with wood. 
> 
> US and European machines typically have a higher connected power because they are built for higher production - 4-5 tph with 400 HP (295 kW).
> 
> Tom  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Paul Anderson
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 11:47 AM
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> Subject: [Stoves] Cuber and size of densifying machines. (no longer Re: The wood and char and fuel "debate" )
> 
> Stovers,
> 
> Slide #9 of the presentation at the site given below is interesting.   
> Those cubes should work very well in gasifiers of many different sizes.
> 
> I was impressed by the other slides that show the very large sizes of 
> the pelletizers and cubers.   If supply of raw materials is sufficient, 
> large machines seem so much more appropriate than 100 or 1000 small 
> units.   Fuel supply is BIG business.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
> 
> On 3/5/2014 9:58 AM, Energies Naturals C.B. wrote:
> > Hello Michael,
> >
> > .....
> >
> > We saw some examples of cubers in a Beijing(?) stove exposition some time ago.
> >
> > Also check this:  
> > http://www.novator.se/bioint/BPUA12Pres/10_BPUA12_Crane_Wang_MUYANG.pd
> > f
> >
> > Hope this helps
> >
> > Rolf
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:36:47 -0600
> > Michael Mahowald <memahowald at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You are absolutely correct Paul !
> >> Deforestation happens all over the world with the lack of fire wood.
> >> There simply is not enough dry sources of trees or waste from them even for TLUD's to keep even poor consumers interested in them.
> >> We know vetiver grass has the highest photosynthetic activity of any plant, making it the most renewable energy source on the planet.   We just have to densify the grass into pellets at a cost that people can afford.  The only way we can do this is to eliminate the cost of diesel fuel to run the generator to make the pellets.
> >> We are planning on using a downdraft gasifier for gas to accomplish this.  We just have to perfect this process and size it for a portable pelleting plant that can be taken to the fields they grow it.
> >> When we perfect this it will be capable to work everywhere in the world that needs clean cook stoves.
> >> If you want to see what we are doing check out 
> >> http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/grass-energy
> >> and 
> >> http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/sustainable-path-on-how-to
> >>
> >> Michael E. MahowaldPresident
> >> Haiti Reconstruction International952-220-6814
> >>
> >> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:43:31 -0600
> >> From: psanders at ilstu.edu
> >> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org; biochar at yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: [Stoves] The wood and char and fuel "debate" (was a long 
> >> time ago called Re: Request for technology proposals - Clean Stove 
> >> Initiative, Indonesia)
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> >>      
> >>    
> >>    
> >>      Dear Crispin, Ron and all,
> >>
> >>        
> >>
> >>        It is interesting reading the back and forth between Ron and
> >>        Crispin.   I emphasize two paragraphs from Crispin,
> >>
> >>        
> >>
> >>        On 2/24/2014 10:10 AM, Crispin Pembert-Pigott wrote:
> >>
> >>      
> >>      
> >>        
> >>        
> >>        
> >>        
> >>        
> >>           
> >>          There
> >>              is no dispute between us whatsoever as to the energy
> >>              consumption: the energy remaining in the char represents
> >>              energy not liberated from the fuel consumed.
> >>           
> >>          The
> >>              important question is not what we want, but what the
> >>              customer of the test result wants. They are not asking how
> >>              much energy was used when cooking, they asked how much fuel
> >>              was consumed. The answer is of course different if there is
> >>              char remaining and that char is not ‘fuel’ to the same stove
> >>              for the next fire.
> >>           
> >>        
> >>      
> >>      For the vast majority of "customers" (including governments that
> >>      want to reduce or reverse deforestation), the important question is
> >>      "how much wood is burned."    The interests are highly related to
> >>      WOOD, specifically related to TREES, not even counting sawdust that
> >>      goes into pellets.
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>      So, because TLUD stoves are VERY GOOD at burning NON-wood biomass,
> >>      the wood saved can be 100%.   And we still get the char.
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>      Concerning fuel and wood and non-wood and char and other such
> >>      measurements, the real problems can come from rankings and Tiers and
> >>      o
> >> ther reports that could give excellent stoves some poor results
> >>      because the "authorities" are defining fuel as being exclusively
> >>      wood, as in trees and woodlands that need to be protected.
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>      If we could get past that "imposed intellectual construct" of fuel
> >>      being wood, we could make more progress about some types of biomass
> >>      stoves being even better than good for the environment.
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>      Rest assured that the advocates of alcohol and kerosene and other
> >>      NON-biomass fuels are pointing out that their stoves help minimize
> >>      deforestation/enviromental degradation.
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>      Biomass that is NOT WOOD needs to be recognized as being favorable
> >>      for saving trees, and credit given to the stoves that can use those
> >>      non-wood biomass fuels.
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>      AND that recognition and credit needs to be EXPLICITLY STATED IN THE
> >>      REPORTS ABOUT FUEL CONSUMPTION.
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>      In some ways, this is all just another discussion about why the
> >>      reported results of any stove testing need much explanation (which
> >>      is usually not provided) and why the results are so easy to ignore
> >>      as being poorly related to the realities of people and their stoves
> >>      and their fuels.
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>      I hope we can do better in the future.
> >>
> >>      
> >>
> >>      Paul
> >>         (still another week to go on my vacation trip to Brazil,
> >>      so I probably will not be sending replies.)
> >>
> >>      Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> >> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> >> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> >> Website:  www.drtlud.com
> >>    
> >>
> >>
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-- 
Energies Naturals C.B. <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>