[Stoves] Cuber and size of densifying machines. (no longer Re: The wood and char and fuel "debate" )
Paul Anderson
psanders at ilstu.edu
Thu Mar 6 09:12:34 CST 2014
Nolbert,
My recollection is that they both have ram presses, not screw presses.
But I do not know if they are hydraulic or mechanical (mentioned by
Bjarne as producing different qualities, which are unknown to me.)
Doc
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 3/6/2014 4:47 AM, Nolbert Muhumuza wrote:
> Bjarne Laustsen,
>
> Actually they both use the screw presses. They make high density briquettes.
>
> Nolbert.
>
> 2014-03-06 13:42 GMT+03:00, Bjarne Laustsen <bjarne at kiwlau.com>:
>> Nolbert Muhumuza
>>
>> One of the issues with briquette production is to get briquettes of high
>> density.
>> High density will help in reducing the risk of picking up moisture in
>> the briquettes.
>> Then there are also the issue of type of raw materials used for making
>> briquettes, especially the moisture content.
>>
>> I am aware that some briquettes producers in Uganda are using hydraulic
>> piston presses. These presses typically produce briquttes of lower
>> density than briquettes produced on either screw presses or mechanical
>> piston presses. So it is better to use these last ones when making
>> briquettes for gasifier stoves.
>>
>> Bjarne Laustsen
>>
>> On 3/6/2014 12:10 PM, Nolbert Muhumuza wrote:
>>> Mr. Bjarne Laustsen,
>>>
>>> We have a 2-3 commercial briquette producers in Uganda. One particular
>>> company gave us an excellent sample for our Quad gasifier stoves.
>>> However the quality soon deteriorated (for two subsequent supplies),
>>> they became un-burnable in the gasifiers. They were very smoky, picked
>>> up moisture quite easily. So we had to dry them a day before cooking
>>> each meal.
>>>
>>> Reason was variations in feedstock mixtures, due to infrequent
>>> supplies. These guys drive all around the country collecting biomass
>>> feedstock, so they surely couldn't maintain a steady and consistent
>>> supply of feedstock which affected their final product. The other
>>> company added chicken droppings, which also made the briquettes smoky.
>>>
>>> Dr. Paul Anderson once picked high density (only wood shavings) from
>>> Zambia, they were excellent.
>>>
>>> Hope you put some of these issues in consideration as you prepare to
>>> use briquettes in gasifiers.
>>>
>>> Regards, Nolbert.
>>>
>>> 2014-03-06 10:32 GMT+03:00, Bjarne Laustsen <bjarne at kiwlau.com>:
>>>> To Paul and others
>>>> Fuel supply can be big business but it does not need to be.
>>>> We have been making pellets for gasification stoves.
>>>> The pellets in itself work very well if they are in sizes from 6 mm or 8
>>>> mm in diameter, they have been burning very good in our gasification
>>>> stoves.
>>>> The problems in relation with pellets for gasification stoves are how to
>>>> find good and sustainable pellet presses for producing the pellets.
>>>> The slides from the presentation from Crane Wang MUYANG illustrate this
>>>> very well. Because the pellet press they shows are big and expensive
>>>> equipments that will do a good job, however they are outside the
>>>> financial reach of most of us.
>>>> We have experiences with some of the smaller and cheaper pellets mills,
>>>> and they are not able to produce pellets in a sustainable way. They are
>>>> designed for feed pellet production, and they aretherefore not able to
>>>> produce fuel pellets in an economical way.
>>>>
>>>> I have noted that in China they are mainly working with pellets for fuel
>>>> production while in India they are working with briquettes.
>>>>
>>>> For me to see the cuber will still be an to expensive solution.
>>>>
>>>> The solution for us will be to use the Indian type of mechanical piston
>>>> briquette presses that can make briquettes with diameter of 60 mm and
>>>> get attached a puck cutter on that so the briquettes are cut out in
>>>> pucks. Such pucks will be a good fuel for gasification stoves. And the
>>>> equipment is reasonable in price so it is possible for many to finance
>>>> such a solution.
>>>>
>>>> These briquette presses can work with most types of agricultural
>>>> residues, so we at the same can shift to using renewable biomass for
>>>> cooking and in this way also contribute to reducing the deforestation.
>>>>
>>>> Bjarne Laustsen
>>>>
>>>> On 3/5/2014 10:47 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:
>>>>> Stovers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Slide #9 of the presentation at the site given below is interesting.
>>>>> Those cubes should work very well in gasifiers of many different sizes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was impressed by the other slides that show the very large sizes of
>>>>> the pelletizers and cubers. If supply of raw materials is
>>>>> sufficient, large machines seem so much more appropriate than 100 or
>>>>> 1000 small units. Fuel supply is BIG business.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>>>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>>>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>>>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/5/2014 9:58 AM, Energies Naturals C.B. wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Michael,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We saw some examples of cubers in a Beijing(?) stove exposition some
>>>>>> time ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also check this:
>>>>>> http://www.novator.se/bioint/BPUA12Pres/10_BPUA12_Crane_Wang_MUYANG.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rolf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:36:47 -0600
>>>>>> Michael Mahowald <memahowald at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are absolutely correct Paul !
>>>>>>> Deforestation happens all over the world with the lack of fire wood.
>>>>>>> There simply is not enough dry sources of trees or waste from them
>>>>>>> even for TLUD's to keep even poor consumers interested in them.
>>>>>>> We know vetiver grass has the highest photosynthetic activity of any
>>>>>>> plant, making it the most renewable energy source on the planet.
>>>>>>> We just have to densify the grass into pellets at a cost that people
>>>>>>> can afford. The only way we can do this is to eliminate the cost of
>>>>>>> diesel fuel to run the generator to make the pellets.
>>>>>>> We are planning on using a downdraft gasifier for gas to accomplish
>>>>>>> this. We just have to perfect this process and size it for a
>>>>>>> portable pelleting plant that can be taken to the fields they grow
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>> When we perfect this it will be capable to work everywhere in the
>>>>>>> world that needs clean cook stoves.
>>>>>>> If you want to see what we are doing check out
>>>>>>> http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/grass-energy
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/sustainable-path-on-how-to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael E. MahowaldPresident
>>>>>>> Haiti Reconstruction International952-220-6814
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:43:31 -0600
>>>>>>> From: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>>>>>> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org; biochar at yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>> Subject: [Stoves] The wood and char and fuel "debate" (was a long
>>>>>>> time ago called Re: Request for technology proposals - Clean Stove
>>>>>>> Initiative, Indonesia)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Crispin, Ron and all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is interesting reading the back and forth between Ron and
>>>>>>> Crispin. I emphasize two paragraphs from Crispin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/24/2014 10:10 AM, Crispin Pembert-Pigott wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>> is no dispute between us whatsoever as to the energy
>>>>>>> consumption: the energy remaining in the char
>>>>>>> represents
>>>>>>> energy not liberated from the fuel consumed.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> important question is not what we want, but what the
>>>>>>> customer of the test result wants. They are not asking
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> much energy was used when cooking, they asked how much
>>>>>>> fuel
>>>>>>> was consumed. The answer is of course different if
>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>> char remaining and that char is not 'fuel' to the same
>>>>>>> stove
>>>>>>> for the next fire.
>>>>>>> For the vast majority of "customers"
>>>>>>> (including governments that
>>>>>>> want to reduce or reverse deforestation), the important
>>>>>>> question is
>>>>>>> "how much wood is burned." The interests are highly related
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> WOOD, specifically related to TREES, not even counting sawdust
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> goes into pellets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, because TLUD stoves are VERY GOOD at burning NON-wood
>>>>>>> biomass,
>>>>>>> the wood saved can be 100%. And we still get the char.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Concerning fuel and wood and non-wood and char and other such
>>>>>>> measurements, the real problems can come from rankings and
>>>>>>> Tiers and
>>>>>>> o
>>>>>>> ther reports that could give excellent stoves some poor results
>>>>>>> because the "authorities" are defining fuel as being
>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>> wood, as in trees and woodlands that need to be protected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we could get past that "imposed intellectual construct" of
>>>>>>> fuel
>>>>>>> being wood, we could make more progress about some types of
>>>>>>> biomass
>>>>>>> stoves being even better than good for the environment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rest assured that the advocates of alcohol and kerosene and
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> NON-biomass fuels are pointing out that their stoves help
>>>>>>> minimize
>>>>>>> deforestation/enviromental degradation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Biomass that is NOT WOOD needs to be recognized as being
>>>>>>> favorable
>>>>>>> for saving trees, and credit given to the stoves that can use
>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>> non-wood biomass fuels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AND that recognition and credit needs to be EXPLICITLY STATED
>>>>>>> IN THE
>>>>>>> REPORTS ABOUT FUEL CONSUMPTION.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In some ways, this is all just another discussion about why the
>>>>>>> reported results of any stove testing need much explanation
>>>>>>> (which
>>>>>>> is usually not provided) and why the results are so easy to
>>>>>>> ignore
>>>>>>> as being poorly related to the realities of people and their
>>>>>>> stoves
>>>>>>> and their fuels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope we can do better in the future.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>> (still another week to go on my vacation trip to Brazil,
>>>>>>> so I probably will not be sending replies.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>>>>>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>>>>>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>>>>>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Bjarne Laustsen
>>>> Director
>>>> Kiwia & Laustsen Limited
>>>> P.O. Box 285
>>>> Karatu, Tanzania
>>>> phone +255 787295684
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Bjarne Laustsen
>> Director
>> Kiwia & Laustsen Limited
>> P.O. Box 285
>> Karatu, Tanzania
>> phone +255 787295684
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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