[Stoves] Cuber and size of densifying machines. (no longer Re: The wood and char and fuel "debate" )
Kevin C
kchisholm at ca.inter.net
Fri Mar 7 10:40:40 CST 2014
Dear Richard
I am quite pleased to see Francis and Mary upgrading dung fuels by
washing out the solubles.
Do they use the "dung wash water" for fertigation purposes, as I
suggested 5 or 6 years ago?
Have you made any "holey briquettes" with the washed dung?
( Holey shit briquettes :-)
Best wishes,
Kevin
Quoting Richard Stanley <rstanley at legacyfound.org>:
> Nolbert,
>
> Our own knowledge of using animal manure as a solid fuel is limited
> to briquetting it. It comes from Francis and Mary Kavita in rural
> Kenya (Miumbuni village in the former Makweni district ~2hrs east of
> NBI off Mombassa road). I copy this to them but also will tell you
> or others interested in communicating with them directly to be
> patient: They receive email only a hand transcribed snail mail
> posted letter out through the son in NBI
>
> Francis and MAry are the real masters of the craft of using cow dung
> in Masainni at least out in the Mara, and camel dung up in Somalia–
> and a few other dung varieties in between. The process they
> developed is brilliant in its simplicity and ease of replication
> anywhere: They simply wash out, read, stir the dung around in a tub
> of water, decant the water, re fill with fresh water, stir some more
> decant (Francis mentioned that usually two or three cycles are
> enough), until the water in the tub of washed dung becomes clear.
> what remains of the dung, is a fiber/seed and crumb rich composite
> for blending into a briquette by itself or with in fillers of your
> choice to the extent tha the mass molds easily in your hands (ie.,
> it takes a "set" in your hands without acting spongy). The
> combination tends to make a nice clean odorless fuel if your added
> infiller itself combusts well too ) .
> I do not know how this will work in pellets but it produces a pretty
> clean burning fuel.
>
> But I am lazy: Please try that idea in pellet form and teach the
> rest of us what you have learned.
>
> Tulabagane ssebo,
>
> Richard
>
> On Mar 6, 2014, at 3:10 AM, Nolbert Muhumuza wrote:
>
> Mr. Bjarne Laustsen,
>
> We have a 2-3 commercial briquette producers in Uganda. One particular
> company gave us an excellent sample for our Quad gasifier stoves.
> However the quality soon deteriorated (for two subsequent supplies),
> they became un-burnable in the gasifiers. They were very smoky, picked
> up moisture quite easily. So we had to dry them a day before cooking
> each meal.
>
> Reason was variations in feedstock mixtures, due to infrequent
> supplies. These guys drive all around the country collecting biomass
> feedstock, so they surely couldn't maintain a steady and consistent
> supply of feedstock which affected their final product. The other
> company added chicken droppings, which also made the briquettes smoky.
>
> Dr. Paul Anderson once picked high density (only wood shavings) from
> Zambia, they were excellent.
>
> Hope you put some of these issues in consideration as you prepare to
> use briquettes in gasifiers.
>
> Regards, Nolbert.
>
> 2014-03-06 10:32 GMT+03:00, Bjarne Laustsen <bjarne at kiwlau.com>:
>> To Paul and others
>> Fuel supply can be big business but it does not need to be.
>> We have been making pellets for gasification stoves.
>> The pellets in itself work very well if they are in sizes from 6 mm or 8
>> mm in diameter, they have been burning very good in our gasification stoves.
>> The problems in relation with pellets for gasification stoves are how to
>> find good and sustainable pellet presses for producing the pellets.
>> The slides from the presentation from Crane Wang MUYANG illustrate this
>> very well. Because the pellet press they shows are big and expensive
>> equipments that will do a good job, however they are outside the
>> financial reach of most of us.
>> We have experiences with some of the smaller and cheaper pellets mills,
>> and they are not able to produce pellets in a sustainable way. They are
>> designed for feed pellet production, and they aretherefore not able to
>> produce fuel pellets in an economical way.
>>
>> I have noted that in China they are mainly working with pellets for fuel
>> production while in India they are working with briquettes.
>>
>> For me to see the cuber will still be an to expensive solution.
>>
>> The solution for us will be to use the Indian type of mechanical piston
>> briquette presses that can make briquettes with diameter of 60 mm and
>> get attached a puck cutter on that so the briquettes are cut out in
>> pucks. Such pucks will be a good fuel for gasification stoves. And the
>> equipment is reasonable in price so it is possible for many to finance
>> such a solution.
>>
>> These briquette presses can work with most types of agricultural
>> residues, so we at the same can shift to using renewable biomass for
>> cooking and in this way also contribute to reducing the deforestation.
>>
>> Bjarne Laustsen
>>
>> On 3/5/2014 10:47 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:
>>> Stovers,
>>>
>>> Slide #9 of the presentation at the site given below is interesting.
>>> Those cubes should work very well in gasifiers of many different sizes.
>>>
>>> I was impressed by the other slides that show the very large sizes of
>>> the pelletizers and cubers. If supply of raw materials is
>>> sufficient, large machines seem so much more appropriate than 100 or
>>> 1000 small units. Fuel supply is BIG business.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>>
>>> On 3/5/2014 9:58 AM, Energies Naturals C.B. wrote:
>>>> Hello Michael,
>>>>
>>>> .....
>>>>
>>>> We saw some examples of cubers in a Beijing(?) stove exposition some
>>>> time ago.
>>>>
>>>> Also check this:
>>>> http://www.novator.se/bioint/BPUA12Pres/10_BPUA12_Crane_Wang_MUYANG.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>
>>>> Rolf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:36:47 -0600
>>>> Michael Mahowald <memahowald at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You are absolutely correct Paul !
>>>>> Deforestation happens all over the world with the lack of fire wood.
>>>>> There simply is not enough dry sources of trees or waste from them
>>>>> even for TLUD's to keep even poor consumers interested in them.
>>>>> We know vetiver grass has the highest photosynthetic activity of any
>>>>> plant, making it the most renewable energy source on the planet.
>>>>> We just have to densify the grass into pellets at a cost that people
>>>>> can afford. The only way we can do this is to eliminate the cost of
>>>>> diesel fuel to run the generator to make the pellets.
>>>>> We are planning on using a downdraft gasifier for gas to accomplish
>>>>> this. We just have to perfect this process and size it for a
>>>>> portable pelleting plant that can be taken to the fields they grow it.
>>>>> When we perfect this it will be capable to work everywhere in the
>>>>> world that needs clean cook stoves.
>>>>> If you want to see what we are doing check out
>>>>> http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/grass-energy
>>>>> and http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/sustainable-path-on-how-to
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael E. MahowaldPresident
>>>>> Haiti Reconstruction International952-220-6814
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:43:31 -0600
>>>>> From: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>>>> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org; biochar at yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Subject: [Stoves] The wood and char and fuel "debate" (was a long
>>>>> time ago called Re: Request for technology proposals - Clean Stove
>>>>> Initiative, Indonesia)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Crispin, Ron and all,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is interesting reading the back and forth between Ron and
>>>>> Crispin. I emphasize two paragraphs from Crispin,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/24/2014 10:10 AM, Crispin Pembert-Pigott wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There
>>>>> is no dispute between us whatsoever as to the energy
>>>>> consumption: the energy remaining in the char represents
>>>>> energy not liberated from the fuel consumed.
>>>>> The
>>>>> important question is not what we want, but what the
>>>>> customer of the test result wants. They are not asking how
>>>>> much energy was used when cooking, they asked how much
>>>>> fuel
>>>>> was consumed. The answer is of course different if
>>>>> there is
>>>>> char remaining and that char is not 'fuel' to the same
>>>>> stove
>>>>> for the next fire.
>>>>> For the vast majority of "customers"
>>>>> (including governments that
>>>>> want to reduce or reverse deforestation), the important
>>>>> question is
>>>>> "how much wood is burned." The interests are highly related to
>>>>> WOOD, specifically related to TREES, not even counting sawdust
>>>>> that
>>>>> goes into pellets.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, because TLUD stoves are VERY GOOD at burning NON-wood biomass,
>>>>> the wood saved can be 100%. And we still get the char.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Concerning fuel and wood and non-wood and char and other such
>>>>> measurements, the real problems can come from rankings and
>>>>> Tiers and
>>>>> o
>>>>> ther reports that could give excellent stoves some poor results
>>>>> because the "authorities" are defining fuel as being exclusively
>>>>> wood, as in trees and woodlands that need to be protected.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If we could get past that "imposed intellectual construct" of fuel
>>>>> being wood, we could make more progress about some types of
>>>>> biomass
>>>>> stoves being even better than good for the environment.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rest assured that the advocates of alcohol and kerosene and other
>>>>> NON-biomass fuels are pointing out that their stoves help minimize
>>>>> deforestation/enviromental degradation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Biomass that is NOT WOOD needs to be recognized as being favorable
>>>>> for saving trees, and credit given to the stoves that can use
>>>>> those
>>>>> non-wood biomass fuels.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> AND that recognition and credit needs to be EXPLICITLY STATED
>>>>> IN THE
>>>>> REPORTS ABOUT FUEL CONSUMPTION.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In some ways, this is all just another discussion about why the
>>>>> reported results of any stove testing need much explanation (which
>>>>> is usually not provided) and why the results are so easy to ignore
>>>>> as being poorly related to the realities of people and their
>>>>> stoves
>>>>> and their fuels.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope we can do better in the future.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> (still another week to go on my vacation trip to Brazil,
>>>>> so I probably will not be sending replies.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>>>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
>>>>> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>>>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> site:
>>>>> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Bjarne Laustsen
>> Director
>> Kiwia & Laustsen Limited
>> P.O. Box 285
>> Karatu, Tanzania
>> phone +255 787295684
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Nolbert Muhumuza
>
> President & Chief Operations Officer
> Awamu Biomass Energy Ltd.
> P.O. Box 40127, Nakawa
> Kampala - Uganda.
>
> Mobile: +256-776-346724
> Skype: nolbertm
> www.awamu.ug
>
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