[Stoves] Up-date

Tue May 27 23:58:19 CDT 2014

Hi Harry,
I have it up on our FB page:  https://www.facebook.com/SeaChar I know Gus
does too.

Harry, I did not see the pictures you shared with Paul. Could you please
share those again?
Attached is a photo of a popular "frame" (or setting) from our project. It
is a knock-down design.
Art Donnelly

On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Harry Ha <harryha at sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Dear Gus,
>
> I like to see your video, but I can't find the link. Can you send it to me?
>
> Regards,
>
> Harry
>
> ------------------------------
> From: crispinpigott at outlook.com
> To: invfalcones53 at yahoo.com; psanders at ilstu.edu; harryha at sympatico.ca;
> ameripham at click1.net; peter.schild.mittelamerika at gmail.com;
> solarbobky at yahoo.com; art.donnelly at seachar.org; jonnygms at gmail.com;
> christa-roth at foodandfuel.info; biochar at yahoogroups.com;
> rongretlarson at comcast.net; tmiles at trmiles.com;
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: RE: Up-date
> Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 11:22:25 -0400
>
>
> Dear Gus
>
>
>
> Many thanks for bring this product to my attention by video.  I will
> provide some comments because there are a couple of design issues that you
> can easily address.
>
>
>
> When the flame is first started in the stove (the canister is put into
> place) it can be seen that the flames emerging from the gasifier are ‘lazy’
> and seeking oxygen. It is therefore a ‘diffusion flame’, short of air and
> the gases cannot burn to completion because there is no air supplied to
> them at the point where they exit the lower chamber through the
> ‘concentrator disk’.  The gas stream is only burning on the outside. Not
> good.
>
>
>
> There is a ring with secondary air holes in it above the gas entrance
> however they are so far from the flame they are unable to penetrate the gas
> stream (at all) resulting, even far into the burn, in a flame that is
> running underneath the plancha still looking for air. The air is there, but
> not mixed with the gases.  All the time they running under the plate, they
> are cooling off, making PM and CO. Not good.  Good clean burning does not
> come from flames running under the plate – it comes from burning the gases
> to completion in a low excess air environment.
>
>
>
> This diffusion flame problem is very common in simple gasifiers because
> not enough attention has been paid to getting the produced gas burned to
> completion before the heat is applied to the working surface. In short, a
> flame running alongside a pot or under a plancha is a no-no. It has not
> finished burning yet but it is prematurely being asked to perform work. The
> flame can *only* be burned really well, to completion, if there is no
> metal or ceramic object in contact with it. That is best accomplished over
> as short as distance as possible.
>
>
>
> If you look at the flames coming out of an LPG stove they are small, short
> and intense. The reason is the gas is well-mixed with air in the right
> proportion, even though all the mixing is taking place outside the gas
> head. There are no ‘normal’ gas stoves with long, lazy flames reaching into
> the air 5 or 10 inches trying to find oxygen. They would fail the CO
> benchmarks if they did.
>
>
>
> Many of the elements of your system are really good, however the critical
> issue of the final burner needs to be addressed. I suggest that you replace
> the removable concentrator disk, just as an experiment, with two things:
>
>
>
> 1.       Put the concentrator disk *inside* the fuel chamber down perhaps
> 20 or 25mm so the function of homogenising the gas is performed.
>
> 2.       Put a large central disk held in position by 2 or three metal
> bars where the concentrator disk currently sits. Make it about 30 mm
> smaller in diameter than the secondary air entrance cylinder. This will
> create a 15mm wide gap between the disk and the se4condary air holes
> forcing the gases out to the edge where the secondary air enters. The disk
> should be *below* the secondary air holes.  The idea is to get the gases
> to mix well with secondary air at the entrance holes ‘by force’. There is
> draft available from the chimney so the air should be pulled in well. The
> flames cannot be seen if the top is opened as that breaks the draft, so
> perhaps make a spy-hole in the top surface to see what the flames look
> like. Cover it with a piece of glass so you can get your eye close to the
> hole. Wear glasses.
>
>
>
> The result should be a number of inward-pointing flames surrounding each
> of the streams of incoming secondary air, all flames pushing towards the
> centre just above the central disk. This should create a number of much
> smaller and more intense flames. If you have the number of holes right, and
> the size right, and the shape right, there will be complete combustion
> without high excess air (something that can only be tested with a
> combustion analyser).
>
>
>
> The flamelets, we can call them, should be fairly low to the central disk,
> then rise centrally towards the pot or plancha, then turn outwards
> radially. It will have the effect of heating the centre of the plancha
> most, but not excessively on one spot as an LPG burner head would do. The
> pot is probably far too close for the flame to burn well – raise it up
> without creating a channel for additional air to enter the combustion area.
>
>
>
> If you can get this structure to work, it will go a long way towards
> assisting others to make better burners. It is important to homogenise the
> gas so one side does not burn better than another – hence the use of a
> concentrator disk, but also it is important to get the secondary air into
> the gases as they burn.  Paul Anderson is recommending the use of a
> concentrator disk. Paul Olivier is recommending the use of a ring of
> flamelets (his are vertical). I am suggesting that both are needed if you
> want to get the flame length under control and to eliminate the problem of
> diffusion flames running under a large cold surface.
>
>
>
> Outcome: If it is working (you should be able to see the ring of inward
> pointing flamelets) the pot should heat water faster, and when you open the
> pot hole cover plate (a little to peek inside) you should never see any
> long, lazy flames passing underneath the plancha. The temperature of the
> plancha should rise more rapidly and the whole system should run hotter for
> the same burn rate.
>
>
>
> If this is the result, you can reduce the primary air supply a little and
> extend the burn because the system efficiency will have increased.
>
>
>
> Please let me know if you are able to get this result. It might be
> invisible to the user, but will result in better performance.
>
>
>
> Nice work.
>
> Crispin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Inversiones Falcon [mailto:invfalcones53 at yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:05 AM
> *To:* Paul Anderson; Harry Ha; Thong - Haiti EmailUser Ameripham; Peter
> Schild - El Salvador; Bob Fairchild; art.donnelly at seachar.org; Jon
> Anderson; CHRISTA ROTH; Biochar Yahoo Group; Crispin Pemberton-Pigott;
> Ronal W. Larson; Tom Miles; Discussion of Biomass Cooking Stoves
> *Subject:* Re: Up-date
>
>
>
> Dear Paul I have been working on our project, but until now I found the
> way to send you a good video, we can adjust any TLUD to all our frames
> (even desing new model for street vendors) I will like to tried to make an
> oven but at this moment I`m short of budget fot something like this, pleas
> send comments on this video
>
>
>
> Best Regar
>
>
>
> Gus
>

-- 
Art Donnelly
President SeaChar.Org
US Director, The Farm Stove Project
Proyecto Estufa Finca
<http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2eaJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsUU5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9SKkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfeifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpDpyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlMSqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoyAXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji73zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUliWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0>
"SeaChar.Org...positive tools for carbon negative living"
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