[Stoves] Request to get partners in a possible TLUD stove improvement project

Dean Still deankstill at gmail.com
Tue Aug 4 23:58:12 CDT 2015


Ron,

IMO, swirl is not as powerful a cleaner stove technique compared to 1,)
limiting the rate of woodgas being made or 2.) the generated mixing
ability. We start by limiting the rate of reactions by decreasing primary
air. Then add higher velocity jets of secondary air.

Swirl is great but I think that it is gravy. May be wrong!

Best,

Dean

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Ronal W. Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
wrote:

> Dean:
>
> I want to emphasize - no making of a new stove intended.  This is to be
> only an addition to stoves that (hopefully, but not necessarily) have
> already been tested.  Looking for a breadth of existing designs.  Hopefully
> these are already in the best “balance” they could achieve.  This is to see
> whether that can be improved.
>
> What have you seen in swirl approaches?
>
> What have you seen in turbulence enhancers?
>
> Thanks for the quick feedback.
>
> Ron
>
>
> On Aug 4, 2015, at 6:52 PM, Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> In my opinion, reducing emissions in a TLUD or any stove requires testing
> with emissions equipment. The great stove combines many factors working
> together. "Swirl" is only one part. Kirk gets good results when everything
> is in balance. "Swirl" is not powerful enough to overcome problems in the
> balance.
>
> I completely agree that anyone with tin snips and emission equipment and
>  perseverance can make low emission stoves. If you are lucky it takes a
> shorter time. So what? Even if you are unlucky it happens eventually. Drink
> more coffee.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Ronal W. Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net
> > wrote:
>
>> Stove list  cc Kirk
>>
>>         From what I can understand, the lowest emission (particulates, CO
>> is easy) values from TLUDs have been from stoves designed and tested (last
>> week) by Kirk Harris.  One reason seems to be that he has achieved a swirl,
>> using (as described on this list often) a fan blade shape.
>>
>>         I recall a few other uses of the term “swirl”, but know of no
>> significant tests like those by Kirk.
>>
>>         In recent conversations, Kirk has agreed to be part of an
>> off-list TLUD stove group to investigate a different means of achieving
>> swirl. It seems to be cheap and applicable to most TLUD stoves.
>>
>>         The main advantage of a swirl is more flame time spent in the
>> stove;  to get low emissions, hot gases, not flames, need to be hitting the
>> cook pot.
>>
>>         The proposed approach also should increase turbulence.  I do not
>> recall any TLUD that tried to achieve turbulence  (to get the mixing needed
>> for shorter path lengths and more complete combustion).  Anybody know of
>> designs to achieve turbulence other than added disk or washer shapes?
>>
>>         The reason for not saying much now is to save list members’ time
>> and energy. This is not a guaranteed approach.
>>
>>          Anyone joining should want to see this open-source (no patents).
>>
>>         Anticipated time commitment for a first design - a few hours with
>> tin snips.  Metal cost a buck or two.  Probably can work with clay as well.
>>
>>         If anyone knows of past swirl or turbulence experiments (or
>> modeling) in TLUDs, your input now could save Kirk and I (and anyone else
>> wanting to join) a lot of time - especially if those results were negative.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>         feel free to call 303-526-9629, if that would help.
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>>
>
>
> --
> Dean Still
> Executive Director
> Aprovecho Research Center
> PO Box 1175
> 76132 Blue Mountain School Road
> Cottage Grove, OR 97424
> (541) 767-0287
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-- 
Dean Still
Executive Director
Aprovecho Research Center
PO Box 1175
76132 Blue Mountain School Road
Cottage Grove, OR 97424
(541) 767-0287
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