[Stoves] TLUD presentations at ETHOS 2015 -with your participation

Crispin Pemberton-Pigott crispinpigott at outlook.com
Fri Jan 9 16:36:26 CST 2015


Dear Stephen

Careful there....caution advised.

Biomass stoves do not as a rule generate NO2 the way we think of it being generated by an internal combustion engine. The combustion does not take place under pressure in a stove.

The formation of NO takes place as soon as the temperature rises above 700 C with only a little forming below that, 'randomly'‎. The greater portion of the gasses passing through the combustor exceeding 700 and the higher the temperature reached, the higher the NO concentration in the exhaust.

The NO2 formation process at 'stove temperatures is still in the 'random' phase just as the NO formation process was below 700. Thus NO2 is about 10% of NO, or less. This is so well known that some gas analysers don't even bother to try to measure the NO2, the NO number is padded by 10% and reported as NOx. NOx includes NO3 which is really hard to produce in an open fire.

However that said, there is NO formed without NO2 at the low end, towards 700. Thus your research would be better focused on NO because it reports a real condition, and because if you get some measurements from someone it is likely to be a 'guess' anyway. You will have to ask if the instrument really measures NO2 separately from NO. It might not.

Stoves running a cool fire will hardly produce any NO, for example if you measure the NO in the gas produced by a gasifier it will be at the 'random formation' level. Measure it just after the flame and pot, and it will tell you if the flame is reaching 700, and sort of, how much of the time. NO is very useful for finding out a bit of information about what is going inside a fire you cannot see.

A fan blowing on charcoal can create an (undiluted) concentration above 900 ppm NO(EF). The NO2 may or may not be 90 depending on some random things.

Thank you for considering these often unmeasured gases‎.

At the YDD lab in 2014 they measured CxHy using an NDIR cell and produced some interesting real time comparisons between CO and CxHy (with the instrument calibration centred on propane)‎. It shows a very similar plot shape and confirms a conclusion drawn from the work as the SeTAR Centre that CO, H2S, CxHy and H2 are all valid incidators of the combustion efficiency.

True combustion inefficiency would calculate all the gaseous PIC's ‎divided by the chemically balanced sum of all the combustion products. CO/(CO+CO2) is a proxy for the combustion inefficiency. Invert it and you get a proxy for the combustion efficiency.

Regards
Crispin having fun in Ulaanbaatar!
‎
HI Paul


Does anyone have CH4 and N2O emissions data or know of a thesis/ paper that
details the quantity of CH4 and N2O from TLUD drum ovens?

We are doing a life cycle assessment on a project in Laos.

Thanks

Regards
Stephen

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 9:08 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

>  Stovers,
>
> For over a decade I reported at each ETHOS meeting about advances in TLUD
> and other micro-gasification stoves of the previous year.   For ETHOS 2015,
> there will be numerous independent presentations that relate to TLUDs, so I
> will NOT be summarizing about them.   But I will present the findings of
> those who cannot make it to the ETHOS meeting, or who only want a short
> summary of their work.
>
> If you are interested in having YOUR work about TLUD stoves summarized
> into my presentation, please send me appropriate information i the coming 2
> weeks (by 16 January, please).  You can send me:
>
> 1.  Basic info on your findings, designs, etc, including important
> information about stove acceptance if you have that, and I will make a
> PowerPoint slide or two.
>
> 2.  Send me one or two PowerPoint slides (in .ppt or .pptx format, not as
> .pdf) that present your work.
>
> Be sure to include your contact information on the slides.
>
> *********** Here is the Title and Abstract (at this time).  I might pick
> up a co-author or two.
>
>  ETHOS 2015 presentation
>
>
>
> Title:
>
> Advances of TLUD and other Micro-gasification for Clean Cookstoves during
> 2014
>
>
>
> Presenter:    Paul “Dr TLUD” Anderson
>
>                        Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
>
>
>                                                            Abstract
>
> Numerous advances in TLUD and other micro-gasifiier cookstoves that
> occurred in 2014 have their own presentations at the ETHOS 2015 conference.
> This presentation is an overview of *additional* work and status reports
> that otherwise would not be presented.   With one or two slides from
> several TLUD stove projects, the range of diversity of approaches and
> underlying issues are seen on a world-wide basis.  The presenter is in
> contact with potential contributors, organizing their inputs, and
> presenting the diversity of results.
>
> *******
>
> I am anticipating a wide variety of material to include.    I hope that
> the Nurhuda / Differ activities in Indonesia are presenting, but if not, I
> will try to have a short summary of that effort.   Same applies to Crispin
> with both Mongolia and Indonesia TLUD information.    Less likely to attend
> are people with TLUD efforts ongoing in India, Cambodia, Vietnam, Uganda,
> Kenya, South Africa, USA and El Salvador (I have direct contact with all of
> them), and am sure that 6 to 10 others might respond to this contact
> requesting them to provide some short summary info.   It will be SPECIFIC
> to TLUD and related micro-gasification.   I am not trying to cover all
> types of stoves.
>
> If you want to chat about this, I am at my home phone number below or by
> Skype or by email.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
>
>
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