[Stoves] Mongolian stove for heating

Sat May 23 11:44:35 CDT 2015

Dear Courtenay

Thanks for the support and links. I presume you saw the chart of ambient
PM2.5 released last week. If you have means to do so, can you confirm that
this is the first time a major city has cleaned up its air without changing
fuels? I would like to be able to say that with more confidence. I have only
read that ‘it has never been done before’ and set that as a personal target
7 years ago.

The reduction asked for (the project target) in 2007 from the WB was 30%
from the stove itself, with the expectation that this would be achieved by
reducing fuel consumption, an expectation rooted ultimately in the belief
that the smoke was an inherent property of the coal, not the coal+stove
combination. On that score the project has made an excellent demonstration
of what is possible. It is not unusual to see tests with a 98% reduction
against the baseline.

>From the initial 30% reduction target, now no stove is accepted into the
programme unless it has reduced PM by more than 90%. As MCC provided about
60% of the funding to date I think it would be good to have on record that
this is the first time the air quality has been improved so much – better
than Berkeley’s best case Scenario 2 – with only a change in the stoves. If
it is true, it should be on MCC’s list of signal achievements.

It is clear from design experiment results that we are not reaching the
limits yet on CO and PM reduction, or thermal efficiency. The stove
development centre will open soon and have the capacity to develop and test
water heating stoves, small boilers both high and low pressure, and regular
home and Ger stoves. It is expected that as a result of their work, further
improvement in stove performance will be seen in the coming years.

Regards

Crispin

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
Engelke, Courtenay D (DCO/IEPS)
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 12:15
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Mongolian stove for heating

Please find links below to 1) a Partnership for Clean Indoor Air-sponsored
webinar and 2) independent impact evaluation associated with the Millennium
Challenge Corporation-funded stoves activity in Mongolia which was
successful in replacing over 100,000 stoves in Ulaanbaatar in less than 3
years.

http://www.pciaonline.org/webinars/Improved_Heating_Stoves_for_Air_Pollution
_Reduction_in_Mongolia

http://data.mcc.gov/evaluations/index.php/catalog/133

I would be happy to answer any questions and/or to provide additional
information.

Regards,

Courtenay Engelke

Millennium Challenge Corporation

Washington, DC

From: Leslie Cordes <lcordes at cleancookstoves.org
<mailto:lcordes at cleancookstoves.org> >

Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 11:30 AM

To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
; Discussion of biomass cooking stoves

Subject: Re: [Stoves] Mongolian stove for heating

Paul - it is incorrect that the Alliance does not cover coal fueled
cookstoves. In fact, we have a comprehensive clean cookstoves program in
China, and Mongolia has been a long-standing national partner of the
Alliance. Additionally, a representative of the WB funded program spoke
about their program at the last Forum in Cambodia‎ and we have featured
articles about the MCC-UNEP-LBL program in Mongolia in the Alliance's
newsletters.  I would be happy to pass along your note to the Bank and MCC
program managers

Best regards, Leslie

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Paul Anderson

Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 11:17 AM

To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves

Reply To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves

Subject: Re: [Stoves] Mongolian stove for heating

Crispin and all,

Your message is very useful about several important points:

1.  Important heating-stove and air quality work is being done in Mongolia.
Congratulations to all who are involved.   Seems the World Bank is the big
backer.   

2.  Information flow about these efforts is horrible.   Our ONLY source of
info has been Crispin.   THANKS!!!!    Otherwise, this is almost off of the
radar for Stoves discussions openly on  the Internet.   I searched for  

Ulaanbaatar Clean Air Project (UB-CAP)   

and saw some reports that were more about goals, etc.   I did not do a
thorough search.     Please somebody check fully and confirm or correct me
and guide us to the data.   But if I am correct, this lack of knowledge is a
MAJOR deficiency in our networking.   

Very interesting that even Crispin (an adviser to the project, but about
emissions and evidently not about stove design / manufacturing) does not
have clear photos / tech drawings / and other info about the stoves
themselves.

3.  The fuel is wet lignite with over 50% volatiles.   FANTASTIC!!!   TLUD
stoves thrive on getting volatiles released from solid fuel, and THEN do the
clean burning a few centimeters away!!!!   

4.  The stoves are heavy (high mass which is good for heating-stoves) with
cast iron and ceramic (which is great for withstanding the higher
temperatures of burning some (maybe much or all) of the final carbon
(similar to coking coal once the volatiles are gone) at relatively high
temperatures for the "typical sheet-metal TLUD stoves" for tropical
climates.

5.  The GACC and the EPA programs about cookstoves do not (I believe)
include COAL-burning stoves.   This needs to be corrected.   I certainly
hope it is resolved well before the November GACC Forum in Ghana.   The
success in Mongolia should be well documented and well disseminated.

Note:   Fossil fuels increase the final CO2 in the atmosphere, but that CO2
is "acceptable" in some circles, such as by those who promote LPG, which is
extremely clean burning (but is carbon positive).   Allowing for that, the
issue of CLEAN fuel is about other emissions (black carbon, methane,
Particulate Matter PM, CO etc.).   Therefore, there are NO DIRTY FUELS, but
only DIRTY STOVES that cannot burn the fuels well.   Kerosene (parafin)
dripped into a TLUD or Rocket or other stove will give a dirty fire.  That
is a user error, not a stove error.   Countless examples could be given of
inappropriate burning of fuels.   But what is important is that any one type
of fuel can be cleanly burned in at least ONE design of stove.  

Related:   Even if we could have one of the Mongolian TLUD stoves available
for viewing and testing, most certainly the same fuel (high volatile wet
lignite) would be needed for any appropriate testing of the stove.
Different types of coal would probably not burn as cleanly in that stove.

6.  We (the collective "we the Stovers") could certainly benefit from
further information from Mongolia.   I suspect that a Chinese-speaking
American engineer-type person could greatly assist with this.   I am
wondering how much the Mongolian advancement is already being introduced
into northern China.   Or is there a "not invented here" barrier to the
spread of the progress?

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD  
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>    
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com> 

On 5/19/2015 12:22 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:

Dear Paul

Actually I am not aware of the links to the stoves – I just don’t deal with
that side the equation. Um…how about looking on line for Ulaanbaatar Clean
Air Project (UB-CAP) and see if they have something on their website. It is
likely to be in Mongolian which is written with a Russian script so it will
be hard to follow. 

Most of the stove that pass are some form of TLUD gasifier. At the moment
only two people are making pretty good cross draft stoves. One is a direct
reproduction of the GTZ7 which can be extremely clean. I recall it has
negative PM emissions as early as 12 minutes after ignition.

The fuel is wet lignite. I would not describe it as ‘low quality’ which I
found out only means it has volatiles above 20% of dry mass. I would not
describe it as ‘low’ quality but it has >50% volatiles! I think it is the
best coal I have ever seen in the world. It is easy to light and can burn
extremely cleanly shortly after ignition if the combustion environment is
right. Obviously several companies have it right. If the coal was made into
pellets it would be even cleaner burning. They are still burning lump coal
‘as it arrives’. Big pieces are broken up of course.

The promoted stoves run from I think $80 to $270. Most are cast iron with
ceramic interiors. They have to have a two year guarantee.

Regards

Crispin

Crispin,

Please direct us to info including photos about the Mongolian stove for
heating.   I think you have previously stated that it is burning low-grade
coal, right?   And it is some variation of a gasifier, correct?   And at
what cost per stove?

Paul

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