[Stoves] Torrified Pellets
Ronald Hongsermeier
rwhongser at web.de
Sun May 24 13:13:20 CDT 2015
Hi again, Dean!
Spent most of the afternoon chasing down infos on torrefaction projects.
So far I know of two running for sure, maybe a third, the last in SC,
the former two in PA and SD. The one in Rapid City SD is a production
plant (which is similar to one in the Netherlands.) tsi-inc.net is their
website, but the browser keeps timing out, so don't know if they're down
for Sunday, or what.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biWNh1iPnzQ
the one in PA runs about 1000# of biocoal / hour
http://www.terragreenenergy.com/
The Greenville, SC plant should be in production at 11K t/annum
http://www.integrofuels.com/
If I understand you, your goal in this is to try to get an idiot-proof fuel?
regards,
Ronald von Bayernnässetrotzbayernchampions
On 24.05.2015 19:52, Dean Still wrote:
> Dear Ronald,
>
> Thanks for your helpful comments. Charcoal without remaining wood in
> it doesn't make smoke but, of course, wood really likes to smoke. With
> biomass the preparation including recipe, drying, pellet size, etc.
> makes a big difference in emissions when trying to get down to the
> very low levels needed to protect health. I'm making some torrified
> pellets and will report back after testing under the hood.
>
> All Best,
>
> Dean
>
> On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Ronald Hongsermeier <rwhongser at web.de
> <mailto:rwhongser at web.de>> wrote:
>
> Dear Dean,
> I may seem like I'm harping here, but now that you've said a bit
> more, you've mentioned a couple of factors that I have noticed in
> my limited experience without a hood and therefore without
> concrete parametric analysis, but for which I can give some
> postulates.
>
> 1. The wood-gas stove in design mode depends on a uniform fuel
> "chunk-size" which promotes a level "pyrolysis" front(planar)
> migrating towards the bottom of the stove. If that plane is broken
> by dis-uniformity in the fuel or overly large gaps between the
> fuel pieces, you will get a spot drop in temperature along with
> glowing fuel which will migrate unevenly towards the bottom of the
> stove, breaking the pyrolysis front and sometimes dropping the
> mean temp inside the burning chamber such that the rising wood gas
> will no longer be close enough to critical temp that the onset of
> 2nd-ary air will ignite it.
>
> 2. 1. would be consistent with the bark observation. Bark
> generally has lots more minerals and less energy per unit mass.
> Did you/they assure dryness level of the bark? Were the pieces
> between (cross-section/10-20) of the stoves throat? Do you mean
> pellets from eucalyptus wood or when eucalyptus oil is poured on
> the fuel? Off the shelf kerosin burners here in germany are
> strictly regulated as to what you may or may not burn in them. If
> it is smoking it is either wrong fuel, design flaw or user error.
>
> 3. Pellets pack closely, so if they are smoking, usually the
> problem can be fixed by either turning up the fan a bit or putting
> some chimney length between the secondary air and the pan to
> increase the draw. (i.e., the primary air is probably not of
> sufficient pressure to deliver enough O2 to the pyrolysis front to
> keep it hot enough such that it will ignite upon contact with the
> secondary air.)
>
> 4. Because torrefied pellets are partially reacted, they may be
> somewhat less dense and especially because the ends will be
> cleaner, they may not resist airflow as much, which may help
> somewhat with 3. above. I would expect them to act very similar to
> dry pellets, except for the difference in density.
>
> regards,
> Ronald von Aftermidnighttimeforantibiotics (and bed)
>
>
>
>
> On 23.05.2015 23:49, Dean Still wrote:
>> Dear Ron,
>>
>> We had three women interns here at the research center for a
>> summer who found cleaner burning recipes for the TLUDs gathered
>> from the surrounding forest. Some things like bark make smoke, etc.
>>
>> Many pellets smoke when using eucalyptus, etc. Different mixtures
>> of kerosene make more or less smoke in off the shelf stoves.
>>
>> I'm wondering if torrified pellets will burn cleaner than normal
>> pellets.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Ronald Hongsermeier
>> <rwhongser at web.de <mailto:rwhongser at web.de>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Dean,
>> I remember that there was a proposed university program (W.
>> Virginia or the Carolinas??) In view of the deaths(not _many_
>> but tragic) that have taken place due to off-loading of
>> pellets at some European ports (CO in the hold) The
>> torrefaction could lead to a more inert fuel. That's hopeful
>> speculation on my part however. You would be transporting
>> some less bound water and the energy density is better than
>> regular pellets in addition to the lack of liquid or vapor
>> H2O absorption issue mentioned before-- these would lend
>> efficiencies in the logistics end of things and an even more
>> uniform fuel than regular pellets, which tend to absorb quite
>> a bit of water here in the damp winter weather...
>> I have to admit that I'm a bit puzzled as to what you mean by
>> cleaner fuel recipes. What specific pollutant are you
>> interested in or are you talking about particulate?
>> If you aren't choking the burn by putting the pot too close,
>> you should be getting a very clean burn with a TLUD?!?
>>
>> regards,
>> Ron
>>
>> On 23.05.2015 22:01, Dean Still wrote:
>>> Hi Ronald,
>>>
>>> I'll keep looking. I think that we shouldn't forget cleaner
>>> fuel recipes as part of the solution.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Dean
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Ronald Hongsermeier
>>> <rwhongser at web.de <mailto:rwhongser at web.de>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Dean,
>>> I did some searching around on the internet several
>>> years ago on this topic.
>>> I'd like to try torrefied stuff as well, but I struck
>>> out at that time.
>>> No idea where to find them.
>>> The main advantage that I picked up on at that time was
>>> that they should be relatively inert as to picking up
>>> extra water after they were pelletized.
>>> Cleaner burning than what?
>>> clean burning is a control issue, not a fuel issue as
>>> far as I understand. If I understand the concept
>>> correctly, it's like using part of the large molecules
>>> initially broken out (cracked) by the heat in the
>>> reaction vessel to coat the surfaces of the remaining
>>> unpyrolized material. This should burn quite okay in a TLUD.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Ronald von Nasennebenhöhlenhölle (but I'm coming back)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23.05.2015 20:56, Dean Still wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to try torrified pellets in a TLUD under the
>>>> emissions hood.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas on where to find them?
>>>>
>>>> Or if it should be cleaner burning?
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Dean
>>>>
>>>>
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