[Stoves] Torrifaction topics Re: Pellet stoves - risks

[Frank Shields]

Paul,

I just want to focus on this for now but did mention other interesting things.

<snip>


> FRANK> The cool gases passing through the char zone and making it past the secondary are the gases Dean is talking about that with research might be removed from the fuel before using via torrification. This would be a very interesting research project. 
I disagree.   The gases removed by torrification are what the TLUD needs to burn to give the cooking flame.   

FRANK> Well you don’t need/want all of them. Not the ones that pass by the secondary as particles and smoke. Perhaps we can remove them before they are used using very controlled pyrolysis temperatures. 


And you will never get all of them released even as the material goes to higher temperatures, even when the biomass has become char-400 and then char-550 and char-800 degrees C and everything in between and beyond. 

FRANK> True as you add oxygen to the system all could burn to ash. But in a closed system without added oxygen there will be a limit in the range of temperatures we are dealing with. 

  As Crispin and I and others point out, there are no “dirty fuels", just inadequate devices for their combustion.   

FRANK> Exactly. But when the device has limits to the controls you may not have the device that will be able to deal with a specific fuel. Then you adjust the fuel - and Dean may have thought of a means to do that other than change shape, size etc. And there may be other chemical means to change the fuel to work with that restricted device.   

Biomass cannot be cleaned up for use in a TLUD to do what a TLUD is not intended to do, which is to burn the pyrolytic gases.  

FRANK> Of course you need the gases. At least the shorter ones that can be prepared to combust completely in the secondary. You do not need the longer ones that pass through.  

> PAUL> Funding that research would take money away for viable research topics.

If it is found that a low preheating of, say, 250c that completely dries the fuel along with removing some lipids, sugars and long chain volatiles resulting in lighter shipping and makes for a much cleaner emissions - I can’t think of a more worthy research project. 

Regards

Frank


 
franke at cruzio.com




> On Sep 9, 2015, at 9:08 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:
> 
>> The cool gases passing through the char zone and making it past the secondary are the gases Dean is talking about that with research might be removed from the fuel before using via torrification. This would be a very interesting research project. 
> I disagree.   The gases removed by torrification are what the TLUD needs to burn to give the cooking flame.   And you will never get all of them released even as the material goes to higher temperatures, even when the biomass has become char-400 and then char-550 and char-800 degrees C and everything in between and beyond.   As Crispin and I and others point out, there are no "dirty fuels", just inadequate devices for their combustion.   Biomass cannot be cleaned up for use in a TLUD to do what a TLUD is not intended to do, which is to burn the pyrolytic gases.   Funding that research would take money away for viable research topics.  Trying to make a TLUD into a generator of gases for internal combustion engines is like training cows to run in the Kentucky Derby, because you  can train them, but they have no chance of winning that race.   But if you want milk, choose a cow, not a horse.  :-) 

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