[Stoves] History of clean Chinese stove development.

[nari phaltan]

Thanks Crispin for echoing something that I have been saying for years
now. *All
fuels are dirty. It is their combustion that makes them clean*.
www.nariphaltan.org/diesel.pdf

Cheers.

Anil

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 7:41 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:

> Dear Dean
>
> "The government is trying to switch to natural gas especially because coal
> burning produces carcinogens."
>
> ‎I have read this claim about carcinogens a number of times and I am
> wondering if you have seen much to back it up. I have read fuel analyses
> for years and the claim of 'carcinogens' seems to be more 'what to say when
> you want to bash coal' than something supported by the analysis of the
> fuel.
>
> If one were to say 'combustion of coal produces carcinogens' another can
> say it is the *failure* to burn the coal that leads to 'carcinogens'. The
> same is true for wood. A bad wood fire can produce lots of carcinogens,
> none of which are in the fuel if one analyses it, which means the problem
> is not the fuel.
>
> Kirk Smith makes much of the coals in western and/or is it south Western
> China that have fluoride in them. All the water in the area will have
> fluoride as well, something well documented so it is hardly news, and bad
> as it is for bones and health, I don't think fluoride is technically a
> 'carcinogen'. Maybe Frans can comment.
>
> The reason I ask is the claim in the introduction of the Stove Comparison
> Chart mentions that some coal (at least in one region of China) has
> fluoride in it and concludes, if you can call it a conclusion, that people
> therefore shouldn't burn coal. At all...because in China some of the coal
> on one area has picked up fluoride from the water table. That doesn't seem
> like a very good reason to ban all the coals in the world.
>
> Coal is old biomass and there is no general claim tha‎t it is all the
> same. So when you rattle off "coal has carcinogens" I always wonder where
> they are. Well-burned coal combustion emits CO2, CO, water vapour and
> depending on the mineralisation, a small amount of trace minerals which
> vary widely composition.
>
> Tobacco is only carcinogenic if it is *not* burned well. It is the same
> with teak or palm kernels.
>
> It is often claimed that 'coking' or 'semi-coking' coal 'removes
> pollution' and 'makes it a clean fuel'. This is just nonsense. What is
> 'removed' is just CHO in one form or another that some combustors don't
> burn well. Too bad for the designer. But it is not right to misrepresent
> what is removed as 'carcinogens' any more than saying it is 'smoke' or
> 'pollution'. It is just carbonaceous volatiles. The stove designing
> community has to get ahead of this curve. Perfectly burned wood or coal or
> LPG or ethanol or dimethyl ethylene emits the same combustion products.
>
> What is universally bad news is bad combustion. Coal burned badly has
> terrible consequences. So what? Why then not burn it properly? Why blame
> coal for the faults of the designer, manufacturer or operator? All
> carcinogens are the responsibility of the designer save in occasional cases
> related to local ‎contamination. Is this true or not? I don't want the
> misrepresentation to fall in either direction.
>
> If we are going to generalise, I think there has to be some general proof
> and it is going to have to be pretty convincing.
>
> Thanks to anyone who can assist with this topic. It is time we addressed
> it because hundreds of millions of people rely of fuels that are being
> characterised as 'dirty' instead of the stoves that don't burn them
> properly.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
>
>
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-- 
Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road
P.O.Box 44
Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India
Ph:91-2166-222396/220945/222842
e-mail:nariphaltan at gmail.com
           nariphaltan at nariphaltan.org

http://www.nariphaltan.org
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