[Stoves] thoughts around ELFD Sampada / Venturi-burners / sooth

[Anand Karve]

Dear Crispin,
are you suggesting the use of ethanol because of its lower boiling point
than water? I can imagine, that due to this property, the action of forcing
air into the flame may start earlier than with water alone.
Yours
A.D.Karve

***
Dr. A.D. Karve

Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)

Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:

> Martin you are inspiring me today.
>
> A.D. How about adding something to the water? If you put in a little
> ethanol, which I know is very difficult to obtain in India, would it affect
> the quality of the combustion?
>
> I know that an ethanol evaporator is possible and it may be that 2 or 5%
> or 10% ethanol will have some unexpected and beneficial effect on the
> flame. If all the vapour ends up in the flame there is nothing to lose in
> terms of fuel waste.
>
> Co-firing often produces a much cleaner result than at least one of the
> fuels alone.
>
> Regards from the DUE Conference
> Crispin
>
>
> Dear Anand and stovers,
>
> it is great and I am happy, that the  ELFD-Sampada stove, invented by your
> daughter, Dr. Priyadarshini Karve, works excellent.
>
>  I want to invite the stovers, to see and get aware, a general system in
> this stove.
>
> All burners with forced draft are somehow "venturi-burners".
>  Air-jets shooting into a gas-atmosphere suck gas into that air-jet.
> In the TLUDs it is inverted to normal venturi gas-burners, and that is an
> excellent idea, because woodgas is not really pure gas.
> It tends to clog nozzles by tars.
>
> Now look to the ELFD-Sampada stove as a "double"-venturi burner-system.
> 1. vapor-jet drives air, in order to make
> 2. air-jets, which blow into woodgas, and each jet forms by that  a
> "somehow"-venturi-burner, as in a forced-draft TLUD.
>
> Let me return to the simple gas-venturi-burners to guess about needed
> pressures:
>
> LPG burners have a gas-pressure about 30 to 50 mbar; natural gas burners
> even lower ( 20 to 25 mbar?)
> Rough assumed ( I am aware: big ratio-differences are possible): The
> streaming gas through the nozzle sucks about the same volume of air, to
> form together an excellent combustible mixture.
> If so, that mixture could be made invers too: 30 to 50 mbar air-jet can
> suck the needed volume of woodgas.
> And to get an  air-pressure about 30 to 50 millibar:
> - A venturi-system driven by steam, -thumb-calculated-; has steam,
> pressurized to 100 mbar (or easily some lower or higher)
>
> - Let us assume, that the steam condenses to water,
>  naturally except the amount of water that is still in gas-form under that
> conditions (below 100°C).
>  If the temperature in the system is above 100°C, there will be a lot of
> water(in gas-form) beside the air.
> ( same thumb "beginning" assume 50/50 above 100°C ??)
> - The ELFD-Sampada shows in reality that the containing water does not
> disturb the combustion. In contrary it seems to help combustion in
> combination with forced draft. - I did not hear of speaking there would be
> water dripping out of the stove.
>
> What about sooth and water?
>
> The former discussion in the stoves-list about sooth, made me looking for
> sooth. I learned it is technically produced in different manners and in
> different qualities, for lots of purposes. - Yes they really want tons of
> sooth, we don't even want grams and want to avoid milligrams-
> One solution to form sooth is to spray water into a flame.
> Shouldn't we get to know, from industry by what amount  of water (and
> temperature) sooth starts to form, that we can avoid that?
> And in contrary: what amount of water(in gas-form) makes burn better??
>
> The lesson I learned:
> As sooth is in parts like graphite, there are C's bound to C's, within a
> layer forming 6-rings, and that ring is so strong, that it needs more than
> 1000°C to burn/destroy the C-C-bondages.
> -That means, we have to avoid _from beginning!_ the forming of sooth so
> strictly as possible, because it is so difficult to get it burnt.
> - The simple truth I want to keep in my awareness:
> Sooth is no charcoal-C and needs roughly double the temperature of
> charcoal to burn!
>
> Just some of my ideas from before and after learning about the
> ELFD-Sampada-stove-
>
> Kind Regards to all,
> - and my compliments to Dr. Priyadarshini Karve.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
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