[Stoves] Thai Bucket Stove / Paris conference 1984

Mon Dec 4 16:20:06 CST 2017

Memories from old times, hope Robert recovers quickly, was doing moto cycle 
tours with him about 1985 in Burundi.
Does anybody remember or did anybody attend the Conference on fuelsaving 
stoves in Paris, about 1984. i came from Berlin to attend it. It was the 
1st time i became aware of the importance of the improved stove subject.
Chris ADAM

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-----Original-Nachricht-----
Von: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com
<mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com> >
Betreff: Re: [Stoves] Thai Bucket Stove
Datum: 04.12.2017, 04:56 Uhr
An: Tom Miles <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> >

In an attempt to use the same roof tile clay as is used to make the SAE 
stove, we made the tube from clay. It was unable to deal with the thermal 
shock of the rapid temperature rise and the difference between the tube and 
walls at each end. It worked with a metal tube held in place by clay, 
however. 

I feel that Anagi can be improved in the same manner. It only requires that 
the diameter be reduced to the minimum needed to pass all gases. The smoke 
reduction is significant. 

Crispin 

Very interesting. Thanks for the additional information.

Several years ago, we found that even industry can have problems firing 
ceramics. The ingredients may be in the correct proportion but if they are 
not blended correctly you can get defects when they are fired. We reduced 
ceramic cathode tube kiln loss from 25% to less than 5% by improved 
blending of the ingredients before ball milling, spray drying, forming and 
firing.     

Tom

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of 
Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2017 3:38 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Thai Bucket Stove

Thanks Tom

The Anagi stove was the inspiration for the improved SAE (SAI?) stove in 
Yogyakarta that have a more deliberate attempt to use a flame tube leading 
out of the lower combustion chamber, in order to burn the smoke before it 
reached the second pot.

That ‘flame tube’ was developed in Mongolia in order to improve the 
emissions performance and yield free heat in the traditional stove without 
adding more than $1 to the cost. It reduced PM emissions 82% on average 
(and of course burned the that portion of the fuel).

Later this was added to the brick-lined stoves designed in Muminabad, 
Tajikistan, now being rolled out by the WB Winter Pilot in Kyrgyzstan and 
CARITAS in Tajikistan (plus their own WB Winter Pilot) in the Model 2.0, 
2.5 and the CARITAS version of the KG2.0. (The first digit refers to the 
model, the sub refers to the size.)

If an Anagi stove has a small enough pipe connecting the two cooking 
places, the same effect is produced at very high power. The later 
implementations made the function standard. The effect on a dung burning 
stove is dramatic because the smoke is think and contains a great deal of 
the lost energy in the form of suspended carbon. It works well even if the 
conditions for the primary combustion are pretty awful. The drawings for 
these stoves are available on my website in the Library.

Regards

Crispin

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
<mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> ] On Behalf Of Tom Miles
Sent: 4-Dec-17 07:07
To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' <
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Thai Bucket Stove

Crispin,

Good digging. Laurie Childers may have been involved in the Thai-Kenya 
connection. She was the potter from Eugene who worked on the KCJ and on the 
popular Anagi stove. She presented some of her work at ETHOS in a session 
that focused on ceramics and kilns.

Tom

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
<mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> ] On Behalf Of Crispin 
Pemberton-Pigott
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2017 2:04 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
<mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Thai Bucket Stove

Thanks, Tom for the great additions.

In the early stage of the IKJ it was apparent that the ceramic component 
was going to be the major hurdle. The acknowledgements page in the 1983 
report by Maxwell Kinyanjui and Laurie Childers has this:

That says there was an educational tour to Thailand.

Hugh Allen was hired by ATI (Washington) but I am not clear if he started 
with CARE or ended up with them. In his book “The Kenyan Ceramic Jiko – A 
manual for stove makers” (IT Publications, 1991) he says the production 
system present was developed between 1986-1988.   The book is contained in 
the AT Microfiche Library from Volunteers in Asia. IT Publications, ATI and 
CARE are credited for the book.

I think Hugh was a ceramics engineer because he had studied ceramics under 
the son of world famous Bernard Leach – the British Potter. Hugh told me 
the reason he was contracted to work on the stove was the difficulty in 
getting reliable results from the kilns: losses of something like 40% were 
normal in the firing.

He developed the low tech Jigger Jolly and forming tools, standardized the 
hole pattern and gave comprehensive instructions about how to develop the 
clay content and fire them. He introduced dome-topped kilns and spread the 
production technology to the Sudan, Uganda, Tanzania, Togo, Malawi and 
Rwanda. In short he “professionalized” the product, bringing firing losses 
down to 3%. Later he led the same type of exercise with the Bielenberg 
sunflower oil press which inspired me greatly.

Footnote 2 reads:

Regards

Crispin

+++++++++

We hope that Robert recovers. I have had many informative exchanges with 
him over the years. He may have informed this group about the Thai bucket 
and the KCJ. I’ll have to look at the early archives (1996-2000).

Thanks Teddy for the KCJ history.

See also: http://www.solutions-site.org/node/50
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.solutions-site.org%2Fnode%2F50&data=02%7C01%7Ccrispinpigott%40outlook.com%7Ca4234e86739e4192671308d53a8adfb1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479290492647116&sdata=19Fd57moiKctwoIs%2FHauUv%2FTIxUzc9z%2Bk6nfxK3CEiI%3D&reserved=0>

The Eindhoven group may be able to shed some light on the origins of the 
KCJ. It wasn’t that long ago (2006?) that Dean Still gathered Piet Visser, 
and KK Prasad, and P Verhaart at an ETHOS meeting.

This takes us back to some thoughtful work on stoves:

What Makes People Cook with Improved Biomass Stoves? A Comparative 
International Review of Stove Programs Douglas F. Barnes, Keith Openshaw, 
Kirk R. Smith, and Robert van der Plas, WORLD BANK TECHNICAL PAPER NUMBER 
242 ENERGY SERIES. 1994

There may be a clue in a 1982 review of the Thai ceramic stove cited in 
that review:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02904586
<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.springer.com%2Farticle%2F10.1007%2FBF02904586&data=02%7C01%7Ccrispinpigott%40outlook.com%7C56b8c62765c2448e29b408d53aa2e175%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479393593924759&sdata=OBqTY%2FuUyAaF655r0GJA4Y7lqAfq9s6qGmqx97xd9qE%3D&reserved=0>

The performance of Thai charcoal stove

P D DUNN, P SAMOOTSAKORN and N JOYCE Department of Engineering, University 
of Reading~ U.K. Proc. Indian Acad. Sci. (Engg. Sci.), Vol. 5, Pt. 4, 
December 1982, pp. 361-372. t~) Printed in India

Or in Keith Openshaw’s 1979 review:

Openshaw, Keith. 1979. "A Comparison of Metal and Clay Charcoal Cooking 
Stoves." Paper presented at the Conference on Energy and Environment in 
East Africa, Nairobi, Kenya.

And in 1982:

Openshaw, Keith. 1982. "The Development of Improved Cooking Stoves for 
Urban and Rural Households in Kenya." Stockholm: The Beijer Institute, 
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences.

There were several projects underway in Kenya during the 1980-1987 time 
period. A few people I have met have told stories about the early 
development of the KCJ. One Canadian told me that shortly after it was 
introduced it appeared in all sizes in the markets without regard to 
dimensions and air hole suited to the size or capacity. A ceramicist from 
Eugene, Oregon, contributed at some point.

The Barnes et. al paper has a long list of stoves projects that were active 
at the time. It was cited in a paper presented by Tom Reed and Ron Larson 
in 1996 at a thermochemical conference in Banff, Canada.

http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/content/wood-gas-stove
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2Fcontent%2Fwood-gas-stove&data=02%7C01%7Ccrispinpigott%40outlook.com%7Ca4234e86739e4192671308d53a8adfb1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479290492647116&sdata=hXQgwvCboIrOsn%2BkklL5dO%2FutYVALy1BTeMMT%2B5XMRA%3D&reserved=0>

My conversations with Tom, Ron, and Mark Bryden at that conference led to 
the creation of this discussion list as an outgrowth of earlier (1994) 
bioenergy and gasification lists that I hosted. Ron became the list 
moderator and the Kenya group was active. Early discussions on the list, 
which Robert contributed to, included stoves like the KCJ and Thai bucket. 
Mark, Dean, and Larry Winiarsky started  ETHOS in about 2000, the same year 
as the Pune stoves conference hosted by the Karves.) We look forward to 
continuing the stoves “conversation” at ETHOS Jan 26-28.

http://www.ethoscon.com/2018-registration/
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ethoscon.com%2F2018-registration%2F&data=02%7C01%7Ccrispinpigott%40outlook.com%7Ca4234e86739e4192671308d53a8adfb1%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636479290492647116&sdata=cV2%2FjOvCC3oBkzzsjDzLn2tStQ1N3QdmUSYPKf0nb68%3D&reserved=0>

Tom

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