[Stoves] "Those of us who believe that the WBT is critical to stove improvement"

[Nikhil Desai]

Andrew:

Vehicle fleet buyers may think differently.

As in the case of stoves, operating hours and timing are up to the
user. Which is why there is a "context" in which EPA or other
regulators pursue emission standards for equipment such as diesel
vehicles.

If you recall, my primary objection to all this "standards" game is
that a) there is no service standard (boiling water is not a proxy for
anything) and b) there is no objective that these standards can
demonstrably serve.

For diesel vehicles, there is a service standard -- a certain range of
user desires and required behavior (such as picking up and maintaining
speed). And there is an objective -- improvement of air quality in
particular locations.

In addition, the authority to set and enforce standards is statutorily
given, and development and issuance of standards is done in an open
process (in North America and Western Europe of a certain period when
I used to work on such matters). There is considerable amount of data
collection and analysis, air basin modeling, science of air pollution
and public health. And consultations with the users and impacted
populations, any of whom can take the regulator to court on the
specific standard proposed or the way it is enforced. (I do have
lengthy experience in legal and legislative fights on such matters).

NONE of this obtains in the case of "international standards" for
"cookstoves in the developing world".

That the tests of diesel engines do not "relate closely to real use"
is an issue addressed long ago in the science of air pollution and
health, at least in the US. If I remember correctly, basically the
answer was, "When we do simulations, the projected emissions and
air-mixing patterns in the areas under consideration show that our
test basis is adequate." I don't remember the history on vehicular
emissions, except as the standards related to the overall
Non-Attainment of Air Quality Standards.

Which is another wrinkle -- diesel engine standards are NOT
promulgated independent of all other influences (including natural) on
air quality. WHO folks would have you believe that a fuel switchover
guarantees a particular,quantified level of indoor air quality
improvement, based on actual studies. (They obviously don't explicitly
ask you to believe that, but that is their intent.  Glibly marketing
deceit to gullible people is one way of promoting careers).

I do not impugn the motives of people involved; I have found no
evidence yet except that the process itself is evidently compromised,
possibly corrupt (but not so, since no law applies).

All I can say is that blind and lame people assessing an elephant
cannot diagnose what ails the elephant or prescribe proper cure
(unless they had been trained in elephant physiology by books).

The path to hell is littered with good intentions.

Why, even Crispin so religiously believes that efficiencies of free
fuel matter. No matter what the cost of an efficient stove.

What can an un-compromised bystander such as you can do? I suggest
asking for a database on service standards (cooking practices and
seasonal, locational variations), and then asking for the evidence
that the performance metrics so fervently pursued by all are based on
any theory with an evidentiary base. (Not the WHO attributability of
premature deaths.)

Nikhil


> On Dec 7, 2017, at 12:06 PM, Andrew Heggie <aj.heggie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 7 December 2017 at 02:54, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> <crispinpigott at outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> The protocol used to test NO emissions in diesels was 'gamed' rather easily. Adopting a protocol that is difficult to game would be a better option.
>
> It's an interesting concept in itself; that countries stipulate a
> standard for engines to reach before they can be sold into a highly
> sophisticated market with high standards for testing and:
>
> 1: a major player can distort the tests
>
> 2: the tests don't relate closely to real use anyway
>
> I haven't bought a new car so it hasn't affected my choice, so why
> should a stove tested to any standard affect a consumer?
>
> Andrew
>