[Stoves] Chinese testing and Chinese stoves (was Re: "Those of us who believe that the WBT is critical to stove improvement")

Wed Dec 20 10:33:57 CST 2017

Dear Nikhil

I was typing 'chronic under-heating' and swiped the touch keyboard left which erases the ‎last word. I am using a Passport. Worse than auto-correct I suppose.

The measurements were made with a Micro-PEMS from the only source of them. Measurements made by Fresh Air, analysis by the equipment providers. I have raw data. It is hard to extract.

The personal monitors were worn so it is a measure of what they experience, though CO was ambient in the home. There was a huge difference with the improved stoves. More than 100 ppm was common in the control homes and the 'before' measurements. The 'after' showed a consistent 1 ppm in nearly all cases all the time. One 'before' day a home was above 100 for 24 hrs.

Temperatures were measured about every two hours all winter, except at night, and all fuel was weighed. Forty % more heat from 40% less fuel, for the coal stoves. Climate freaks should be buying these things and handing them out like popcorn. 40% reduction!

I heard today of a few private sales of the model KG4.3 being ordered, sales that are taking place ‎outside the project. Reports are very positive. Today we took delivery of the wooden pattern for the top deck.

We are preparing for a major expansion for three models. First, 1000 then another 13,000. It is about $300k. Must check the pattern carefully. Measure three times, cast once.

Regards
Crispin

Crispin:

Something got frozen in Almaty winter: a word is missing here -

"The health impact of chronic seems to far outweigh the negative health effects of PM2.5, though that impact was pretty obvious as well."

Folklore has it that men and boys handle heating stoves and fireplaces, chimneys much more than do women and girls.

How were  you able to separate exposures from so-called HAP from exposures to other sources of pollutants in and outside homes? Or are you comparing the change - showing that the reduction in exposures was greater for men and boys so t hat, all else being equal, they must have had a higher exposure to begin with?

Also, remind me - what was the measure of exposures? Dosimetry?

Nikhil

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com<mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>> wrote:
Dear N and P

One of the most interesting things to come out of the winter-long monitoring of IAQ, personal exposure, temperature and health in the Kyrgyzstan Pilot was the big difference (service factor) provided by a stove that used less fuel and kept the room 5 degrees C warmer.

The health impact of chronic seems to far outweigh the negative health effects of PM2.5, though that impact was pretty obvious as well.

I was in a meeting today and when it came to the negative health impacts of stoves someone chimed in with the obligatory 'especially it's affects on women and children. So it is worth noting that in rural poor families in Kyrgyzstan the men turned out to have higher smoke exposure than women or children.

My first maxim, as my students know, is "Never assume anything'.

Don't claim what was not measured. I wonder how fast we can hold to that standard.

Regards
Crispin in solitude in Almaty

Paul:

Yes, "A tack-hammer and a mallet and a sledge hammer are really the same in function (to hit things), but testing them probably should be differently appropriate for each type."

This goes back to my basic question - what is the service standard?

Or rather, in fact, what is a stove?

You might remember Tami raising a question about a year ago - how do you compare efficiencies for stoves that do separate tasks: cook only, heat only, cook and heat?

Users of biomass fires may add - lighting, mosquito avoidance, adding smokey taste.

As Crispin pointed out, "heating stoves" is a short-had for stoves that heat as well as cook. By the same token, cookstoves is short-hand for stoves that cook and heat (space).

Why, that heat can be a health risk. Which is why, over a year ago, a state government in India ordered that biomass cookstoves NOT be used during the times the sun is high (10 am to 5 pm or something).

Conversely, a housewife in New Delhi told me she liked electric induction stove in the summers because it had no flame and put out less heat around the stove.

Whose meals are cooked with some standard stoves with standard cooks and standard foods in standard homes and standard geographies, I wonder.

Nikhil
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